OMG I'M MAKING A MAP! D:

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Snarboo
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OMG I'M MAKING A MAP! D:

Post by Snarboo » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:37

That's right, I am making a map! In fact, maybe more than one. My current project is dubbed "Pipes & Pillars" because I started the map off with a square room with a pillar in it.

I'm making one for two reasons: to learn how to use SLADE and to have something to show off. After playing KDiZD, I really want to practice until I'm good enough to join the upcoming Shores of ZDoom project. So far things are going great. I've quickly found out that looking all the way down in 3D Mode crashes SLADE, so I'm saving obsessively.

Screenshots coming soon!

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Alter
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Post by Alter » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:51

One thing: Don't push yourself too hard

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Snarboo
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Post by Snarboo » Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:10

Thanks. :) The thing I'm most worried about is going overboard with pointless detail that ends up making the map look busy. At the same time, I like to spruce up plain looking areas with cool little details. It's hard to find a good balance sometimes. ;)

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Dutch Devil
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Post by Dutch Devil » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:40

Good luck detail don't put too much effort into that really detail alone isn't going to make your map good, like you said find yourself an balance between all things that make up an good doom map if you concentrate on detail too much some other aspects of mapping might suffer from it.

What I usually do is creat some stuff on paper, first thing I concentrate on is the layout and make sure it has interesting shaped rooms, second would be design all that in doombuilder and see if its turning out like I want it to does it have height differences I am thinking what could I do more to make that particular area having nice gameplay will I make an trap here or there, I try to imagine what the player would think when walking through this map.

Detail comes last for me its not the most important aspect of mapping anymore it used to be but I came to realise that this wasn't the right way to create my maps, and now I try to balance the amount of detail I am going to put in, and leave all detail out what I consider to be pointless.

I go by these three things layout gameplay and last detail, really layout is what the most important thing an fun layout will also help getting better gameplay, detail will not its only ment to make your rooms look nicer and thats all it does therefor not all that important.

I hope this rambling will help.

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Post by Phobus » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:07

My advice is please yourself, and try and do things that seem novel or cool to you. Ignore people that tell you detail is the be-all and end-all of mapping, as I still find the really old wads to be some of the most fun :P (Doomsday of UAC and There's No Place Like Home are two such examples)

Also, if you're a weapon modding kind of guy, why not make a map in support of your own mods? Nobody seems to do this, though it makes a lot of sense to me given that they almost always change the balance of play loads anyway.

And finally - have fun! :P

Speaking of the last point, I might have to start dumping my old projects, as trying to finish them isn't enjoyable, as they're all quite large and ambitious...

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Post by Dutch Devil » Sat Jun 09, 2007 14:05

I've dumped so many wads for the same reasons and because it was an struggle to work on right from the start, if I get this at the begining of an map I allready know its going to bug me all they way trough its process.

I just have to have an good start if thats the case ideas keep flowing and I enjoy working on the map, what I really mean is the first few sectors I create has to impress me.

Don't map for an community/reviews/credit or whatever else I only map for two reasons my love for the game and my own pleasure, I have friends that say why the hell do you still keep on playing that crappy game I could explain it to them but they wouldn't understand Doom is special to me I always wanted to create maps for doom from the first day I saw it.

I've made so many drawings when I wasn't even aware of an community nor did I know about the fact that you could download editors to make maps really when I got acces to internet and downgrabbed an version of windeu it was like an dream coming true finally I could go and create my maps I have been mapping for years now and after all these years I still do it for the above two reasons.

Oh shit more brainless rambling from me :P

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Snarboo
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Post by Snarboo » Sat Jun 09, 2007 16:47

Thanks for the words of encouragement! Taking a break for now. Screenshots will be up sometime today or tomorrow.

What I'm trying to do with this is create a semi-realistic map that tells a story. Many maps try to look cool or be functional, and while my map arguably fills both of those criteria, I think it's most important if the map looks lived in; as though the place you are visiting is real. I want to add small touches that stand out immediately. Things like puddles of blood that lead to interesting places or weapons near fresh bodies.

I want the secrets to reward diligent or observant players, but not be required to complete the map, too. Hopefully when I release this map, my purpose will be clear. :)

I definitely want to turn this into a series. So far, this map is for limit removing ports only, no special features. When I create my next map, I definitely want to go all out and use G\ZDoom features. Then, when I'm done with that map, I'll go back and add minor special effects to the first map, along with details I wanted to add but wasn't ready too.

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Post by Dutch Devil » Sat Jun 09, 2007 17:57

I think its good to start simple and leave all port related stuff out getting yourself familiar with the basics would be an good idea imo.

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Snarboo
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Post by Snarboo » Sun Jun 10, 2007 13:04

Screenshot time! I apologize for the darkness, but hopefully they are bright enough to get a good idea of what's going on. Click on the thumbnails for a bigger screen.

A screen of the starting area. Going up the staircase and around leads to...
Image

A UAC facility!
Image

Getting shot at while trying to look through some bushes (I forgot there was a guy there).
Image

This switch opens up more areas inside the base.
Image

Someone's been here before, but for what?
Image

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Snarboo
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Post by Snarboo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:40

Hey guys! I'm considering releasing a beta. Would anyone be interested in testing? :3

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Alter
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Post by Alter » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:02

Snarboo wrote:Hey guys! I'm considering releasing a beta. Would anyone be interested in testing? :3
I can test your map :)

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KeksDose
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Post by KeksDose » Tue Jun 12, 2007 16:35

Looks good so far, but please, don't expect me as a tester (I'm a damn HORRIBLE tester =D). The last screenshot sounds like a storyline attempt, doesn't it? And the UAC facility looks pretty good with the sector shadows. Keep us informed =D

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Snarboo
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Post by Snarboo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 18:53

Yeah, I was aiming for an "unspoken" story. :D I like the idea of hints telling the player what happened without actually telling them. Kind of like Half-Life, I guess, which had a lot of unspoken elements like that.

Once I finish the map, I want to release it, then go back to it and spruce it up with some GZDoom features, such as scripting. It'd be interesting if the story was told entirely by the player's inner monologues as he sees things, although that might be overbearing having "thought bubbles" appear when doing certain things.

What do you think? Would sticking to an entirely silent narrative be better than having scripted responses?

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Post by KeksDose » Tue Jun 12, 2007 19:31

I love unspoken stories. Let's make it a bit darker and put scary music into it lol. Actually this idea to make everything silent in the map (the storyline) sounds quite good for me, and with some clever scripting you can greatly enhance it. But I'm not DRDs speaker, so you should listen to what other users say to this idea. But actually you can have a mix between "silent" and "Player sees things".

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Paul
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Post by Paul » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:39

Hey there. Good to see a rising mapper.
Criticism time (rest assured, I'll try to be constructive)

Screenshot # 1:
The ashwall doesn't fit in my opinion with the browny rock 5. Perhaps use something green, like one of the Zimmers. The greys are sticking too out as well. From the realistic point of view, grey stuff would generally be covered in dust, dirt and such from the outdoor rockiness. Try something brown, it would surely add more convincement to them. How about metals?

Screenshot # 2:
Same stuff with greys. I'd keep them on top of the structure (where dust and sand from the ground wouldn't reach them, but make them dirty them below). The top grey bar looks kinda too generic. Try a different texture (maybe metal1). I'd remove the midbars and place metalic bars made of sectors over there.

Screenshot # 3:
Same stuff with Screenie 2.

Screenshot # 4:
Very nice. I like that chair. Perhaps the back is too high. Doomguy's step height is 24. Give stuff that should be tall but not too tall (so the bloke can't walk on them) height of 25 to keep the relatively mid height and block them off from accidentially stepping on them. Also, perhaps give the floor a different flat. Looks too pale now. How about Floor0_3 (or whatever is called.. the white panelling. I think it would nicely componate itself with the greys in the room and the low saturation of the area whatsover)

Screenshot # 5:
I'm kinda wondering what is a Radiation sign doing in a bathroom :? are the toilers radiative? Anyway, that area looks very nice. I suggest experimenting with woods instead of metals. Perhaps it would reduce the grittyness the metal texture gives that place.

Keep the map coming! Unfortunately I cannot help you beta testing the gameplay (not now) but any questions, suggestions you'd like to share I'm opened to hear.
Would sticking to an entirely silent narrative be better than having scripted responses?
Go for the HL-style unspoken narration via scripted events and such alike, in my opinion. Showing is always better then telling.
If your story grows too large try making some custom textures for computer screens and make them somewhat interactive so the player can read about a hellspawn gate spawning nearby the installation or something like that.
if the story was told entirely by the player's inner monologues as he sees things
Overused in wads. Doesn't work so good. Silent narration please ;)

Hint for the storyline development - hide the TRUE point of the story (rough scientist opening gateway, meteor from phobos crashin nearby the installation when the base got blown up years ago, diggen out ancient teleporter stuff that linked the base with hell or something like that) until the very end of the story. Gives the story a very nice twist.

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