Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

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Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rachael » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:28

This thread is about replacing some of Paranoid's resources to upgrade the experience from Paranoid and also to provide a smoother Paranoic experience.

Some of the proposed changes are some MAPINFO additions that either were not used or were not available (such as turning off fake contrast, setting up GL lighting) as well as adding +reload support to the existing weapons.

At some point, these changes will likely be backported to Paranoid, itself, for a re-release, but that can be done in due time. (I think Ed the Bat has proposed he wanted to do a remastered version of Paranoid, anyway, and this is a great opportunity to lay the groundwork to get that to happen even if we never actually touch it for now).

Basically, #included DECORATE files and MAPINFO can be "overloaded" (i.e. replaced) to change the content from the previous game.

Proposed additions:

1) Possible behavior changes to monsters that do not break balance? (Needs discussion)
2) Possible behavior changes to weapons that do not break balance? (+reload support is definitely part of this)
3) MAPINFO changes - including turning off fake contrast, and setting a gl_lightmode standard
4) GAMEINFO - This will handily pick a player's copy of Doom2.wad, as well as provide a fancy start-up screen. I already did this and provided a copy to Rex at one point, I'd have to dig it up to find it again.

[Rachael, forgive the edit, but I wanted to keep all the suggested updates in one place. Rex]
5) Add sounds for the sliding doors in Paranoid
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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rex Claussen » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:44

Succinctly put.

Of the 4 changes, I'd say that Item 1 will take a considerable amount of time to discuss, implement, and test satisfactorily. If I recall correctly, the main issue you wanted to see resolved was reduced (or eliminated) monster infighting of the "genuses" - Xen aliens don't fight each other, and human soldiers don't fight each other (which I think they already avoid). Ideally, human enemies would automatically go after Xen enemies, and vice versa. But this would require a complete overhaul of enemy placement, etc., and so I advocate against it for now. In fact, I would recommend against doing anything that will require extensive retesting of either Paranoid or Paranoiac

As for +reload, I don't see that breaking balance at all, and so I am all for implementing it. Other weapon behavior changes ought to be discussed, and will require DBT's participation.

MAPINFO and GAMEINFO: They sound like they will require minimal time to implement and test, so I support them. [I will look through my PM to see what you may have sent me for GAMEINFO.]

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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Ed the Bat » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:25

Eruanna wrote:I think Ed the Bat has proposed he wanted to do a remastered version of Paranoid, anyway, and this is a great opportunity to lay the groundwork to get that to happen even if we never actually touch it for now
I essentially already did, though my 'remastery' is almost exclusively under-the-hood work, invisible to the player. I originally did it for myself, as there were some things that were simply impossible with the official release, due to outdated code practices (such as adding external playerclasses and weapons, and allowing ZDoom's native Reload key to work), but I would be absolutely flattered to have it accepted as official, and/or used as a base for a new release with extended features.

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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rachael » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:47

Some progress: That awful moment when you feel like GZDoom isn't listening to you, so you have to do something completely wacky in order to see if it is paying attention.

Turns out, it is, but I don't know what I am doing wrong. Enjoy this crazy screenshot! (Don't worry, this is not going into the final, it's just meant to incite a chuckle)
Screenshot_Doom_20161114_014313small.png
Screenshot_Doom_20161114_014313small.png (296.51 KiB) Viewed 390 times
EDIT: Lightmode is implemented, but I am having trouble reducing the fog without removing it completely.
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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rex Claussen » Mon Nov 14, 2016 15:08

Rex Claussen wrote:I will look through my PM to see what you may have sent me for GAMEINFO.
Found it. See below.
paranoid-patch.pk3
From January 2015
(13.04 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rachael » Mon Nov 14, 2016 16:07

Thank you.
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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rex Claussen » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:41

Continuing discussion from here.
Enjay wrote:In fact, do you know what would be quite nice? A triple release: Paranoiac, Paranoid 1.1 and the original Paranoia converted and updated to use the Paranoid assets.
Considering the massive progress we've made with Paranoiac since the Team's participation after beta-testing, and the many issues we've identified with the original Paranoid with the newer releases of GZDooM, it seems worthwhile to consider at least a double release (Paranoiac and Paranoid 1.1). My biggest concern is that there is a considerable amount of rework that will be required for Paranoid 1.1 (see above). In other words, the Paranoiac release could be several months away, even though it is essentially almost complete now - because it is being piggy-backed by the release of Paranoid.

[One of the important changes we need to make for a re-release of Paranoid is the introduction of background music for each map. That seemed to be one of biggest complaints of that game.]

As for a re-release of Paranoia with the newer resources of Paranoid and Paranoiac, I think it's a terrific idea, but it seems like a daunting task for me. All the maps would need to be updated with the newer textures and enemies, all new weapon/ammo/health/armor balance would need to be created, I would propose new music, etc. etc. But I'm always open for suggestions and discussion.
Because, you know, we've all got time for that. /sarcasm
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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rex Claussen » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:43

The Ultimate Doomer commented in this post that only the crowbar and cross-bow should work underwater, and all others should not. Perhaps we can consider incorporating this behavior into the weapons when we update Paranoid.

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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rachael » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:52

Stuck it in the issues list for the prospective repository.
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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by The Ultimate DooMer » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:06

Rex Claussen wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:43
The Ultimate Doomer commented in this post that only the crowbar and cross-bow should work underwater, and all others should not. Perhaps we can consider incorporating this behavior into the weapons when we update Paranoid.
And the Beretta ;)

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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by Rex Claussen » Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:21

I'm not clear about this. Are you saying the Beretta should work underwater? Anything with a firing chamber, primer, and propellant would be unusable underwater. This would make the Beretta unusable underwater.

Or perhaps you're saying that this behavior is consistent with the original Half-Life?

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Re: Paranoic.pk3 - Upgrading the original Paranoid

Post by The Ultimate DooMer » Sat Apr 01, 2017 23:53

Yeah, it was like that in the original HL. Made battling those big water monsters a pain, having only a pistol and crossbow to play with.

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Re: Updating the Original Paranoid

Post by Rex Claussen » Sat Apr 15, 2017 14:03

One of things I had hoped to do with Paranoiac was to include brightmaps for the new textures, but this task fell through the cracks. This may be something to consider for Paranoix.

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Re: Updating the Original Paranoid

Post by Enjay » Sat Apr 15, 2017 14:38

I find that creating brightmaps doesn't take very long so that's something I might be able to do if no one else can. I'm not sure when I could get it done but if there's no rush... :)

Which textures in particular need done?

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Re: Updating the Original Paranoid

Post by Rex Claussen » Mon Apr 17, 2017 13:51

Yes, I recall using XNView to create brightmaps for one of our projects (The Phobos Directive?) But I've forgotten how I did them. Perhaps changed the images to gray-scale ones. If I have some time I will try to do them myself.
Enjay wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 14:38
Which textures in particular need done?
I believe there are a few textures in Paranoiac that have lights in them. If I recall, there are many rock and cement textures, but there were a few tech-type textures with lights.

[EDIT: I just looked into the game file & saw that there are a few XENTEK* textures that have lights.]

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