Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

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Rachael
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Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Rachael » Wed Oct 17, 2012 22:44

Remember this? If you were around during the launch of Windows 95, you probably do. More than 17 years ago, Windows 95 debuted with a whole number of significant new interface changes which revolutionized the operating system, and in turn, the entire PC platform. PC sales climbed, and soon a PC was commonly found in many homes across America and even abroad. And one of the ways Microsoft marketed this new technology was one of its (at the time) innovative new features - The Start Menu. It even had its own "theme song," a song sung by The Rolling Stones called "Start Me Up!"

But that is all coming to an end. Future versions of Windows are likely to not include the Start Menu any longer. Windows 8, slated to release worldwide on Friday, October 26th, 2012, which will also be found on every new OEM computer, has put an end to this once revolutionary feature, instead introducing what Microsoft calls the "Start Screen," codenamed Metro, which many Windows 8 specific apps will be coded to run for.

That does not have everyone happy and looking forward to the newest version of Windows, however. Windows 8 has been the target of much criticism and debate, and it is easy to argue that the public at large is not ready for such drastic changes. The new system definitely has its merits, and it is targeting the future of computing and interconnectivity; its goal is to be more intuitive and easier to use, and to organize your programs and files by how you use them rather than folder groups as the Start Menu had done previously.

So what do you think of these new changes? Have you tried out Windows 8 yet? Feel free to comment here, I'd be interested to see what people think. :)
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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Rex Claussen » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:05

I remember switching from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95, and disliking it intensely. My guess is that I'll feel the same way about switching from Windows 7 to Windows 8. But, as with Windows 95, I'm sure I'll adapt to the new OS.

At the same time, I'm not sold on the idea that files need to be stored based on how they are used. I'd rather organize files in a manner of my choosing, rather than based on what someone else has decided is intuitive. For example, I never put my flies in the "convenient" Documents or Music or Pictures libraries. Instead, I continue to organize everything on my C:\ drive. But I guess this is a remnant of DOS and Win 3.1.

I haven't tried Win 8, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Enjay » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:43

Everything I have seen about the Win8 interface makes me think it looks like "baby's first computer" - all big buttons, garish colours and doing as much as it can to hide the actual computer stuff from the user. I'll hold off judgement but I'm not a fan of tablet/smart phone interfaces anyway and I don't like what I've seen so far for Win8. My gut tells me it will get in the way of using a computer efficiently for anyone that is even slightly above the base level of "In only use it to check my e-mails".

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Rachael » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:06

C:\, eh?

I used to do that, as well, but I've stopped doing it a long time ago. At this point I never use the C drive for anything other than the operating system itself. I often even install programs to an external device, and all of my documents are the same way (I, myself, still do not use the My Documents folder, either).

My main reasoning for evacuating the C drive is because having a designated partition for operating system files helps if you need to upgrade, replace, or otherwise switch operating systems. It's also a covenant of Unix, which does not have drives at all, rather a base file system starting at the root folder (called "/"); and believe me it's not a good idea to fill up "/" - that would be the equivalent of storing all your documents in C:\Windows. (For those wondering, drives are mounted, most commonly into the "/mnt/" folder, but sometimes elsewhere such as a user's personal folder)

Another reason is portability. When running settings transfer wizards, only your profile folder is moved (which is where your my documents folder is). And yet another reason is standards compliance. As Microsoft moves ahead in its future versions of Windows, it is going to start only allowing programs to use user profile folders (such as My Documents). The reason for this is directly inherited from Unix - it's to allow system administrators to organize files by user, and every user has their own home folder. All modern operating systems follow this same convention - Windows, Mac, Linux, Unix, and (insert favorite flavor or brand of Linux/Unix here). You may already have seen effects of this in both Vista and 7 - such lock-downs, despite their inconvenience, are in fact a great deal more secure, and also do a lot to circumvent virus propagation.

And Enjay - for your comment, I fully agree. I do not like the Win8 interface at all. But not directly related to your comment - what really upsets me is the idea that a lot of third-party developers are going to start developing for Metro - which needless to say is a very cumbersome and inconvenient interface for anyone who truly multitasks. In Metro everything runs in full screen, and in fact it really does get away from the whole idea of "Windows." They might as well name the operating system "Screens 8" because the only place windows actually exist is in a separate 'program' - "Desktop" (which isn't really a program but the interface treats it as one) - where you will have to run all your other programs which were not designed for Metro.

Needless to say, not only will you have to buy Windows 8 for this "Metro" to use said programs, but you will also have to run it as well - and at this point I would prefer to stay as clear from it as possible, whether I own it or not.
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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Enjay » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:16

Eruanna wrote:And Enjay - for your comment...
Yeesh! That doesn't sound good at all.

As for the look of metro, I think I've finally figured out what was bothering me about it. It looks like a close relative of Windows Media Center - and that, IMO is a horrible, horrible, slow, clumsy, ugly way to do any of the tasks that it claims to make easier.

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Gez » Thu Oct 18, 2012 14:10

As I said on the ZDoom forum, Windows 8 is not a computer OS; it's a smart-phone OS. It's designed for people who want to use their computers as if it were a big, cumbersome, heavy cell phone.

On many usability points, it is a throwback to an older era; one where processing power was limited and screen resolution was low. So you had to run only one task at a time, in full-screen. Smart-phones are just that: weaker computers with a smaller screen. Smart-phone games are about on the level, graphically, of Atari and Amiga games in the late eighties.

There is also the total lockdown aspect. Smart-phones are totally closed and controlled by their manufacturers. You can only install new stuff by going to the officially endorsed "app store". This, too, is a throwback to an earlier, stupider era; which disappeared from computers but stayed strong on consoles. Metro apps will not only be ugly, full-screen only, can't-alt-tab away deals; they'll also be only available through Microsoft's app store.

I didn't mind Vista; but Win8 OEM preinstalled on a computer would be reason enough for me not to buy such a computer. I want nothing to do with such an inoperative system. Keep this idiocy on iBoxes, Xpads, and similar neutered, overpriced pieces of shit where they belong. A general-purpose personal computer should remain general-purpose, personal, and a computer.

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Rachael » Thu Oct 18, 2012 16:54

Gez wrote:I didn't mind Vista; but Win8 OEM preinstalled on a computer would be reason enough for me not to buy such a computer. I want nothing to do with such an inoperative system. Keep this idiocy on iBoxes, Xpads, and similar neutered, overpriced pieces of shit where they belong. A general-purpose personal computer should remain general-purpose, personal, and a computer.
I agree. The only thing that's ever bothered me about Vista is the slow start up times.
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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Graf Zahl » Mon Oct 22, 2012 15:18

Install Classic Shell, circumvent Metro - problem solved.

I don't care about these simplified user interfaces. They are for people who don't do more than surfing the internet or watching videos with their computer.
As for Metro apps, since I wouldn't look what's in the app store they'd be equivalent to not being existent at all.

I guess many developers will quickly notice that developing stuff that has to go MS's certification is a lot different than just offering a file for download - and will discourage many of the hobbyist, especially if MS is up to their usual stuff and makes this process more annoying than it needs to be.

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by De-M-oN » Fri Oct 10, 2014 0:40

As I said on the ZDoom forum, Windows 8 is not a computer OS; it's a smart-phone OS. It's designed for people who want to use their computers as if it were a big, cumbersome, heavy cell phone.
describes it very well.

And I even dont own a smartphone so far.

When I'm on a computer - I want to feel me on a computer and not on a smartphone..

damn I hate this.

Windows for smartphones, youtube design for smartphones, games for pc now only console ports with casual players as target....

result: designs ugly and games bad..

meh can someone stop this pls ....

this is so annoying :/

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Enjay » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:38

on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:18 pm Graf Zahl wrote:stuff
almost 2 years later on Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:40 am De-M-oN wrote:meh can someone stop this pls ....
That's quite a bump there. :shock:

However, seeing as how the thread has been bumped, it seems as if MS has listened to some of the complaints and the start button and proper windowed mode for all programs seem as if they should be available in the next version of Windows (Windows 10).

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Rachael » Sun Oct 12, 2014 18:39

Yeah I've downloaded the technical preview but have yet to install it. I plan to install it this weekend when people stop bugging/needing me for things. XD
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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Rex Claussen » Mon Oct 13, 2014 21:46

Having had a chance to use Win 8 since I posted a couple of years ago, I can add a few comments:
  • 1. I completely agree with those who have pointed out that the OS is attempting to create the look & feel of a smartphone. I'm not a fan.
    2. The newer incarnations allow switching to an interface similar to Win 7, but that is only for the same of appearances.
    3. One of the features of Win 7 I use regularly is to open two or more instances of Windows Explorer. In Win 8 it can be done but it is completely un-intuitive, and requires some additional poking around.
    4. The menu through which the computer can be shut down needs to be pulled up by moving the mouse cursor to the very edge of the monitor screen. Highly sensitive mouse controls can make it annoying to find that slim space where the menu gets pulled up.
Thankfully I haven't needed to buy a computer recently, so I remain fat & happy with Win 7.

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Enjay » Mon Oct 13, 2014 22:58

On Win 8 machines, I would regard add-ons such as Classic Shell (a few other options are available) to restore the start menu as absolutely essential. IMO, MS really dropped the ball on this one. When you speak to almost anyone who uses a desktop machine, they instantly get that trying to make it behave like a smart phone is uncomfortable at best and downright nonsensical most of the time. Quite how this managed to get right the way through the planning, design, programming and testing phases to a final product I really don't know. Was it emperor's new clothes time at MS? Did no one say "this doesn't work"?

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Blue Shadow » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:42

Rex Claussen wrote:
  • 4. The menu through which the computer can be shut down needs to be pulled up by moving the mouse cursor to the very edge of the monitor screen. Highly sensitive mouse controls can make it annoying to find that slim space where the menu gets pulled up.
Windows 8.1, which I'm using, restored the start button. You can right-click on it to bring up a context menu, which has some commands/links, including a shut down command.

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Re: Don't Start Me Up anymore, Windows 8!

Post by Rachael » Tue Oct 14, 2014 16:53

Enjay wrote:Was it emperor's new clothes time at MS? Did no one say "this doesn't work"?
Oh, there were complaints. Windows 8 beta forums were FLOODED to the gill with complaints about the new interface before it went RTM. But like any company with its head in the clouds (a lot could be said about that with Microsoft, really, beyond the obsession with cloud wallpapers) they thought it was just a vocal minority who did not like the changes. But when the changes came into fruition through sales and earnings through the successive quarters, it became painfully obvious that Windows 8 was a flop, and that they should have listened to their testers more.

This is why the Windows 10 beta is more focused on user feedback.

http://techpinions.com/the-windows-8-mistake/27724
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