Bootless Star: Development, Opinions, and Harsh Critiquing

[Tiger]

I have been wanting to keep the newer developments and ideas for 'Bootless Star Beta 8' rather closed as everything can not be confirmed, but the more I think of it - the more I realize that I have to make this program suitable for others instead of just myself. So instead of keeping discussions minimized, I am going to have this forum topic completely dedicated for the developments, open opinions, and critiquing regarding the Bootless Star program. Thus, meaning, if there is something about this program that you - particularity - don't like, for example the interface used within the program is too intimating, feel free to share your thoughts about it!

Current Development Ideas (Subjectable to change):

• Program Ideas and Features
  ==============================
• 1) Barebone scripts
  • Scripts that were created from the Bootless Star program but contains enough information to execute by itself. Thus meaning, it is possible to execute a barebone script without ever needing to resort to Bootless Star program itself to get the task done. This is ideal for scheduled tasks.
• 2) Compile other projects
  [list]Have the flexibility and neutral foundation to compile other projects and engines, such as [G]ZDoom and Eternity. This can be accomplished by setting Bootless Star to manage the universal environment, but the dedicated scripts (such as Doom Builder 2.bat) can manipulate and utilize it's own specific environment and setup. This can leave much available room for further expansion without having to physically change the actual Bootless Star program for every engine.

[*]3) Break program into modules (Program flow style)
[list]Avoid lunacy when editing the program (seriously, once you go in - you're a changed person....)
One flow style method is to use the 'Box' flow style, however - there might be a better approach to this? For example, when executing the program directly - besides calling 'main.bat' for the program and manage the environment, - why not do this directly at the start?[/list]

[*]4) Optimized saves

• When loading a saved file, append to FirstRun for most of variables.

[/list]

Current Changelog for Beta 8 (OLD)


Share your thoughts!
{NOTE: 'Beta 8' is going to be the base foundation for 'Version 1'}

[NeoHippo]

Thank you for your continued efforts to supply us with the compiled editors.

I posted previously that I did not have positive results using Bootless Star. So I tried again. I followed the information given while running the bat file.

While Bootless Star seems to find the necessary files on my harddrive, it seems to have difficulty to find the SVN sites.

On a different tack:
Saving the settings into a filename, with or without the bat extension, terminates Bootless Star.

[edit]
removed links to conserve webspace

[Tiger]

The video was nice, for both understanding how users (not myself) interact with it and what problem you're having (dual purpose video!).

While Bootless Star seems to find the necessary files on my harddrive, it seems to have difficulty to find the SVN sites.

I think the problem is based on where the program is located on your filesystem. This program expects that the entire checked-out directory is at '.\doombuilder', thus the program has to be in the exact same location as the parent checked-out directory. For example:

Code: Select all

Nicholas Gautier@Morgenstern ~
$ lls /cygdrive/H
total 68
  281474976710691 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None         0 Jan 26 19:11 $RECYCLE.BIN
 1407374883553285 drwx------+ 1 SYSTEM           SYSTEM       0 Mar 11 15:37 .
                2 dr-xr-xr-x  1 Nicholas Gautier None         0 Mar 11 15:37 ..
 5066549580905853 ----------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None     56868 Feb 25 09:07 BootlessStar.bat
  562949953459149 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None         0 Jan 26 22:18 doombuilder
35747322042253350 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None         0 Jan 26 22:05 gzdoom
 1125899906958538 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None         0 Feb 25 07:09 SVDoom
 1688849860380377 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None         0 Feb 25 07:09 SVHeretic
 2814749767223240 drwxr-x---  1 ????????         ????????     0 Feb 20 06:18 System Volume Information
 2251799813800592 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None         0 Feb 25 07:08 TGRDM3

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ lls /cygdrive/H/doombuilder/
total 16
  562949953459149 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None   0 Jan 26 22:18 .
 1407374883553285 drwx------+ 1 SYSTEM           SYSTEM 0 Mar 11 15:37 ..
 1125899906880576 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None   0 Mar 11 15:22 .svn
 1407374883662025 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None   0 Jan 26 22:23 branches
19421773393073965 d---------+ 1 Nicholas Gautier None   0 Feb 25 06:30 trunk

When Bootless Star invokes MSBUILD with the relative paths, it expects '.\doombuilder' to be right in the exact same directory and then depending on the project - it will route to either the Trunk or Branch. I am kinda drained and tired, but hopefully this makes sense?
The program was able to detect everything else just fine - which is good, but I think that there is a problem based on where the program is placed on your filesystem.

I've added a detection in Bootless Star (beta 7.4), which determines if it can detect the doombuilder directory correctly, if you are still having trouble - let me know and I'll try my best to help you.

On a different tack:
Saving the settings into a filename, with or without the bat extension, terminates Bootless Star.

Thanks, I'll make a note about that crash -- this can be reproduced with the latest version aswell.

Code: Select all

=====================================
=           Bootless Star           =
=====================================
Save Presets



Enter a filename:
(?) To Cancel, type: Cancel (?)
>> sdfsadf.bat

Saving to file .\Presets\sdfsadf.bat...

\HTML was unexpected at this time.
PS C:\Users\Nicholas Gautier>

[NeoHippo]

So far, I have no luck with Bootless Star.
I followed your advise about file location, but I may have misinterpreted something.

1. I made a folder BOOTLESS_STAR, which holds the bat file BootlessStar.bat and two subfolders: Presets and Scripts.
Presets is empty and Scripts has another bat file RemovePackages.bat.
Running BootlessStar.bat: No success
That is the case in my video.

2. Then I made two more subfolders to BOOTLESS_STAR: DoomBuilder and GZDoombuilder.
Running BootlessStar.bat: No success

3. Then I moved BootlessStar.bat into the Doombuilder folder.
Running BootlessStar.bat: No success

4. Then I also moved Presets and Scripts into the Doombuilder folder.
Running BootlessStar.bat: No success

5. Then I did the same as 3 and 4 with GZDoombuilder.
Running BootlessStar.bat: No success

6. Then I opened BootlessStar.bat in a text editor.
I searched for Sourceforge and could not find a reference.


How does BootlessStar.bat connect to the internet?
Do I have to provide a link to Sourceforge somewhere?
Is BootlessStar.bat finnicky about upper or lower case in folder names?

[Tiger]

How does BootlessStar.bat connect to the internet?

The program (at this moment) only handles operations locally, so it wouldn't matter if you were to have an internetworking connection or not (or if you have a [Wireless]NIC or not). How the program works, is the program simply uses the checked out local working copy of the doombuilder SVN repo. Thus meaning, you'll need to also use a program such as TortoiseSVN for example - to manage the local working copy. You can use this URL to check out the project:

SVN Checkout: https://doombuilder.svn.sourceforge.net ... oombuilder

Is BootlessStar.bat finnicky about upper or lower case in folder names?

Only unless your Windows Filesystem is designed to be picky about upper and lower case characters - adjacent to some of Linux Filesystem's (ext*, for example).

[NeoHippo]

I installed TortoiseSVN and I set the path for URL of repository as indicated above:



TortoiseSVN downloaded 220MB of data for Doombuilder2, GZDoombuilder, etc.

I imagine that the Checkout Directory, which was setup by TortoiseSVN, is what you referred to as local working copy.
But Bootless_Star still does not work properly.

Here is the log file:

Wed 03/13/2013 - 19:43:21.95
Compiling main engine

>>> Compiling GZDoom Builder...
Microsoft (R) Build Engine Version 4.0.30319.1
[Microsoft .NET Framework, Version 4.0.30319.296]
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 2007. All rights reserved.

MSBUILD : error MSB1009: Project file does not exist.
Switch: .\doombuilder\branches\GZDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Builder.csproj

>>> Compiling Plugins for GZDoom Builder...
>>> Compiling Builder Modes...
Microsoft (R) Build Engine Version 4.0.30319.1
[Microsoft .NET Framework, Version 4.0.30319.296]
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 2007. All rights reserved.

MSBUILD : error MSB1009: Project file does not exist.
Switch: .\doombuilder\branches\GZDoomBuilder\Source\Plugins\BuilderModes\BuilderModes.csproj
Wed 03/13/2013 - 21:05:27.50
Compiling main engine

>>> Compiling GZDoom Builder...
Microsoft (R) Build Engine Version 4.0.30319.1
[Microsoft .NET Framework, Version 4.0.30319.296]
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 2007. All rights reserved.

MSBUILD : error MSB1009: Project file does not exist.
Switch: .\doombuilder\branches\GZDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Builder.csproj

>>> Compiling Plugins for GZDoom Builder...
>>> Compiling Builder Modes...
Microsoft (R) Build Engine Version 4.0.30319.1
[Microsoft .NET Framework, Version 4.0.30319.296]
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 2007. All rights reserved.

MSBUILD : error MSB1009: Project file does not exist.
Switch: .\doombuilder\branches\GZDoomBuilder\Source\Plugins\BuilderModes\BuilderModes.csproj
Wed 03/13/2013 - 21:33:00.51
Compiling main engine

>>> Compiling GZDoom Builder...
Microsoft (R) Build Engine Version 4.0.30319.1
[Microsoft .NET Framework, Version 4.0.30319.296]
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 2007. All rights reserved.

MSBUILD : error MSB1009: Project file does not exist.
Switch: .\doombuilder\branches\GZDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Builder.csproj

>>> Compiling Plugins for GZDoom Builder...
>>> Compiling Builder Modes...
Microsoft (R) Build Engine Version 4.0.30319.1
[Microsoft .NET Framework, Version 4.0.30319.296]
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 2007. All rights reserved.

MSBUILD : error MSB1009: Project file does not exist.
Switch: .\doombuilder\branches\GZDoomBuilder\Source\Plugins\BuilderModes\BuilderModes.csproj

I cannot create the repository for H:\BOOTLESS_STAR because the folder is not empty.

So, now I am stuck.
I'm going to search the internet for some tutorials.

[Tiger]

1. I made a folder BOOTLESS_STAR, which holds the bat file BootlessStar.bat and two subfolders: Presets and Scripts.
Presets is empty and Scripts has another bat file RemovePackages.bat.

TortoiseSVN downloaded 220MB of data for Doombuilder2, GZDoombuilder, etc.

I imagine that the Checkout Directory, which was setup by TortoiseSVN, is what you referred to as local working copy.
But Bootless_Star still does not work properly.

Besides having the directory set as:

Code: Select all

H:\BOOTLESS_STAR\GZDOOMBUILDER\doombuilder

move the 'doombuilder' directory to 'Bootless_Star', so the directory location should be:

Code: Select all

H:\BOOTLESS_STAR\doombuilder

After that is set, using the latest version of Bootless Star, check quickfinder (Debugger) to see if the program can properly locate the doombuilder directory.

[NeoHippo]

Okay, there is mention of an SVN Checkout in the apps sections, but to omit in the Bootless Star section that TortoiseSVN is also a necessary prerequisite, in my estimation is misleading.


Had I known that right off the bat, it could have saved me a lot of headache.


But, back to now:
Setting the correct path for the local directory ( H:\BOOTLESS_STAR\doombuilder ) seems to have done it.

I still don't know what I'm doing, but


it compiled.

Thank you for your help.

[Tiger]

but to omit in the Bootless Star section that TortoiseSVN is also a necessary prerequisite, in my estimation is misleading.

Solid and understandable point. I didn't really thought about an SVN client as a prerequisite at the time. Also to be more fair, this program really does lack proper documentation in general.

I still don't know what I'm doing, but

At the current state, the program is rather picky when it comes to directories - static directories. Currently, it is plausible to change a directory pointer for the 'doombuilder' directory variable at line #118.

Code: Select all

SET DirParent=.\doombuilder

Thus, you can manipulate where the program can find the doombuilder directory - but it can not be changed within the program's interface at this point.

[Tiger]

It may take some time to get the gears rolling on this ambitious idea (if I continue forward). My thoughts lately for the past week or so - have been mixed on the negative side. I have been pondering if this is the right decision and if it is even worth it. For example, a new idea is using a new program flow style which visually is a sphere -- Bootless Star creates the environment or the sphere and the modules and external content being in the middle of the sphere. This idea will cause a major overhaul and will cause the users (if any that even use this program), to get familiar with a new interface that is already intimidating as it is - but there is no way around it regardless of the flow style [Box Style|Linear|Sphere].

---

• Pros:
  • Program Life [unless cmd is abandoned or excluded from various Windows distributions; I am not coding this in PowerShell, forget it]
  • Program can expand to house other modules that can compile specific applications (ECWolf, ZDoom, GZDoom, and etc)
  • Program can finally centralize itself and the contents properly (currently, it isn't but a messy mesh)
  Cons:
  • The variables housed in the program can ultimately be worthless if a module doesn't use Bootless Star's standards (independent scripts)
  • The user will have to under go 'two' main menus and append to different atmospheres (for example: Bootless Star and the module itself - such as Doombuilder's compiler main menu.)
  • Nothing is gained in term of processing and time, I can't remember fully what I concluded but I found that this will take a few nanoseconds longer.
  • User presets can be messy in the long term and can not remove superfluous blocks.
  • This program must depend on others to build external modules

<Tiger> Affliction, mind if I ask you question about shell question? Would you think this is a bad idea: Having one program that only deals with some variables such as XCOPY parameters and output variables (path pointers for example), but the program must rely on other modules to do the actual tasks. These modules will be separate from the main program (Excluding the variables mentioned before) and the user must then input their preferences on another module i
<Tiger> n order for the module to perform its specific task.
<@Affliction> Tiger: You're the batch expert here, you tell me.
<Tiger> I have a program flow style set in mind, but I lack motivation or the answer to move on with the idea...

Reason as to why I am posting this is not based on demanding praise or sympathetic retorts, but sharing my thoughts as to why there isn't any movement going on for now.

[Tiger]

Thanks to this spring break (the week entirely off) - I had a lot of time to think about this program thoroughly, and well - - -

Code: Select all

G:\>"I:\Bootless Star\Beta 8\BootlessStar.bat"
Executing "I:\Bootless Star\Beta 8\BootlessStar.bat"...

Calling file Hook.bat...

Current Directory Path Setup
----------------------------------------
"I:\Bootless Star\Beta 8\BootlessStar.bat" Directory is:
  I:\Bootless Star\Beta 8\
Nicholas Gautier's Working Directory is:
  G:\\

> Comparing the user's working directory with the program's directory...
!ERR: Mismatch!
> Caching user's current working directory...

> Changing the user's working directory...

Current Directory Path Setup
----------------------------------------
"I:\Bootless Star\Beta 8\BootlessStar.bat" Directory is:
  I:\Bootless Star\Beta 8\
Nicholas Gautier's Working Directory is:
  I:\Bootless Star\Beta 8\

> Comparing the user's working directory with the program's directory...
The user's working directory matches with the program's working directory!
Operation Successful!
Calling file EnvironmentSetup.bat...
> Setting Up the Environment...
> Program Name Variables...
> Updating Terminal Title...
> Border Variables...
> Navigational Variables...
> Error Protocol Variables...
> Process variables...
> Choice variables...
> Script Pointer Variables...
> Directory Pointer Variables...
> Sound variables...
> User mutable variables...
Bootless Star's environment has been loaded!
Calling file MainMenu.bat...
=====================================
=           Bootless Star           =
=====================================
Main Menu



[1] Operations
[2] User Configurations
[3] Settings
[4] Documentation
[R] Restart Program
[X] Exit

>>>>

Code: Select all

=====================================
=           Bootless Star           =
=====================================
Main Menu



[1] Operations
[2] User Configurations
[3] Settings
[4] Documentation
[R] Restart Program
[X] Exit

>>>>

The main menu was just quickly developed (today), thus - it still needs work within the code. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions to make this menu appear less intimidating, please let me know! I am open for suggestions!


NOTE: TGRDM3's compiling program 'HotCompiler' may ultimately end, as this new program might be able to support other resources. Thus, HotCompiler's support may stop completely in favour for this new version of Bootless Star.

[Tiger]

With the tornado threats continuing to escalate for another day and how frequently these threats have been occurring, I have a feeling that it would be best to upload what I have now.

This build currently doesn't do much, but there is 'some' working flexibility.

{NOTE: If something bad does happen - I am NOT going to have enough motivation/dedication to even bother with this program, as such - someone else will have to pick up the torch on this project}

Bootless Star BETA 8 (Whine) - Developmental Build
Bootless Star Ideas and Development Notes

[Tiger]

The giant overhaul within the foundation in Bootless Star for Beta 8 is not going to happen afterall, but instead - the current foundation is going to be slightly updated.

For those that want to use the code for whatever reason (Read: README.txt):
>> Download

---

[23:37:08] <Tiger> Why I am I consistently writing new programs?
[23:37:21] <Tiger> Why I'm I writing a new foundation?
[23:37:26] <Tiger> Why should I care?
[23:38:58] <Tiger> I lack so much motivation for this program, at times - I don't see the point of it.
[23:39:03] <Tiger> People want the GUI
[23:39:07] <Tiger> Not CUI
[23:40:16] <Tiger> I've tried looking for a - CUI that 'allows' mouse integration, but then the code has to be overhauled all over again and has no garantees of it 'actually' working properly on abroad systems
[23:40:35] <@Affliction> Tiger: libncurses
[23:40:40] <@Affliction> that's how you can click in htop, apt, etc.
[23:40:50] <Tiger> Python
[23:40:53] <Tiger> :'''''''''''(
[23:41:05] <Tiger> I think I just might scratch this
[23:41:41] <@Affliction> Tiger: 'import curses'
[23:41:57] <Tiger> [23:40:35] <@Affliction> Tiger: libncurses
[23:42:02] <Tiger> That's not python?
[23:42:09] <@Affliction> http://docs.python.org/2/library/curses.html
[23:42:11] <@DSBot> Website Title: 15.11. curses — Terminal handling for character-cell displays — Python v2.7.5 documentation
[23:42:30] <@Affliction> http://docs.python.org/2/library/curses ... s.getmouse
[23:42:31] <@DSBot> Website Title: 15.11. curses — Terminal handling for character-cell displays — Python v2.7.5 documentation
[23:42:39] <@Affliction> ,title http://docs.python.org/2/library/curses ... s.getmouse
[23:42:40] <@DSBot> Website Title: 15.11. curses — Terminal handling for character-cell displays — Python v2.7.5 documentation
[23:44:34] <Tiger> Ja, you know what - I am scratching the entire program
[23:44:42] <Tiger> No one is going to want to use it
[23:45:03] <Tiger> And I have to 'depend' on Microsoft to continue on 'supporting' CMD and all the extCMD that exists
[23:45:20] <Tiger> And if they 'change' something within the extcmd - it'll cause havic
[23:45:32] <Tiger> Ja - I am scratching it
[23:46:37] <@Affliction> so what are you not rewriting?
[23:46:49] <Tiger> Bootless Star Beta 8.
[23:48:52] <Tiger> The basic idea - is that it uses 'modules' instead of hard coded functionality.
[23:49:37] <Tiger> So - besides being stuck to just being able to compile 'one' piece of software (Doom Builder), it can compile anything else - as long as someone codes the modules for it
[23:50:02] <Tiger> (or you can be a complete douche and create a module that deletes the root of the drive)
[23:50:37] <Tiger> Everything was possible for that idea, but - no one wants CUI and the code will later be outdated anyways.
[23:52:50] <@Affliction> eh
[23:53:05] <@Affliction> bit complex for batch I think
[23:53:33] <Tiger> It could work
[23:53:39] <Tiger> Infact - it can work
[23:53:56] <Tiger> But this is weighing heavy on my mind:
[23:54:00] <Tiger> [23:45:03] <Tiger> And I have to 'depend' on Microsoft to continue on 'supporting' CMD and all the extCMD that exists
[23:54:00] <Tiger> [23:45:20] <Tiger> And if they 'change' something within the extcmd - it'll cause havic
[23:56:20] <Tiger> Instead what I'll do - is update the current foundation a bit, and release beta 8 that way.
[23:56:46] <Tiger> Perhaps use better pointers, I don't know.
[23:58:42] <@Affliction> "Write programs that do one thing and do it well." ~ Doug McIlroy
[23:59:20] <Tiger> Well, looks like that is going to happen.

[Gez]

I don't think the command line is going away anytime soon. Even Apple hasn't killed it in Mac OS X.

[Rachael]

I don't think the command line is going away anytime soon. Even Apple hasn't killed it in Mac OS X.

I think the most amazing thing is Microsoft still hasn't killed it yet in Windows 8 ... among all the other things they destroyed in that grotesque monstrosity.