Update on New Maps (2021-01-19)

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Expand view Topic review: Update on New Maps (2021-01-19)

Re: Update on New Maps (2021-01-19)

by Rex Claussen » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:39

No, I'm not really set on anything specific, such as using weapons that look and sound like in the original DooM. The idea of using DooM weapons, as I mentioned in the Deimos thread, was to follow Graf Zahl's suggestion. We can easily improvise as necessary, as long as we retain the behavior of the original weapons. In fact, when I developed Paranoia ZDooM had no support for DECORATE or ZScript. Therefore, I used Half-Life weapon graphics (and, perhaps, sounds as well, but I don't remember). The behavior remains unchanged. This can easily be the path we take, as it will allow us to have an IPK3

Re: Update on New Maps (2021-01-19)

by Ed the Bat » Wed Jan 20, 2021 18:47

In regard to using Doom weapons or monsters... the code for them all exists in GZDoom, so if we continue with the ipk3 method (which is still not exactly a hard requirement), we'd just need to include sounds and graphics. We could perhaps come up with some alternative resources, like from Freedoom (just as an example; I have mixed feelings about using them wholesale), or our own creative ideas for replacements.

On the other hand, if you're really set on them looking and sounding like the actual Doom weapons, we can scrap the ipk3 idea and go back to using Doom2 as the iwad.

Re: Update on New Maps (2021-01-19)

by Rex Claussen » Tue Jan 19, 2021 15:52

Update on January 19, 2021

The overhaul of the original 5 maps of Paranoia is well on its way to completion. [Didn't I say that before? But this time it's not a deep fake.]
The 4 Xen space maps are still where they were as of my last update.
I have more-or-less completed 3 maps in The Deimos Syndrome expansion pack, with plans to do at least one, possibly two, more maps.

At one point I considered having the Deimos expansion pack serve as the Blue Shift episode. However, because the expansion pack uses DooM weapons & ammo, this won't work.

Re: Update on New Maps (2020-04-12)

by Rex Claussen » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:31

Enjay wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:18
Have you been spending time in the UK? :lol:
Not recently. But I have been re-reading John Constantine: Hellblazer, which is mostly set in the UK, with the primary characters being British, Irish, and Scottish. Hence, the "native" parlance.

Re: Update on New Maps (2020-04-12)

by Enjay » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:18

Rex Claussen wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:41
even though I put the whole bollocksing shite together.
Have you been spending time in the UK? :lol:

Re: Update on New Maps (2020-04-12)

by Rex Claussen » Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:41

Update on April 12, 2020

The overhaul of the original 5 maps of Paranoia is well on its way to completion.
The 4 Xen space maps are still where they were as of my last update.
I have started on a (currently-planned) 3-map set using DooM "environments" & weapons, and Half-Life enemies & texturing. I must admit it is a very surreal experience playing in these maps (1 of which I have completed, and the second is WIP). Seeing the DooM geometry and weapons, but H-L texturing & weapons makes me do a double-take, even though I put the whole bollocksing shite together. YMMV.

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-09-29)

by Rex Claussen » Wed Jun 05, 2019 14:27

Update on June 5, 2019
Rex Claussen wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 13:48

Map 29 (Space Station): I have Made some progress on the interior of the space station's "spindle". It, too, is built with 2 levels and the challenge is to make one level distinguishable from the level above.
All mapping on the "spindle" was completed as of the end of January
Map 31 (Xen Space): This is a map set in 3 craters. All mapping for one of the craters is done
All mapping for Map31 was completed as of the end of January

This project was initially on the back-burner because of massive, job-related workload. But more recently it's been because of another (stealth) project in which I've been engaged. I will get back to Parallax[/] fairly soon.

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-09-29)

by Rex Claussen » Mon Oct 01, 2018 13:24

Ed the Bat wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 20:12
... we still need a way to accommodate them. If Doom 2 isn't being loaded alongside the game, these monsters will have no sprites and sounds. I suppose I could copy in the files from Freedoom, or something, or stop players from playing these maps unless Doom 2 is detected...
No, this is a hacky solution, and defeats the purpose of your efforts. I will remove the Doom enemies in the existing maps and replace them with H-L ones. In which case, I'll abandon my idea of creating new versions of the 2 existing maps (while still keeping the original 2 maps). I will still plan on making a small secret map, to which the player will go if s/he finds all 6 secrets in "Six Ways to Die"). I fear that some players haven't played "Space X" because they haven't found all 6 secrets; the amount of effort we put into "Space X" map was so great that it deserves to be played.
And I have held off on converting the maps to UDMF, specifically so as to help accommodate your mapping. I know you prefer older tools that don't support UDMF, and that's totally fine with me. I do feel it might be useful to you to someday spend some time playing with a newer tool like GZDoom Builder Bugfix, but I'd never try to force you. Besides, converting to UDMF would only grant me a few small conveniences, so it's no big deal to stay with Hexen format, for now.
It's good to know I can work with HeXen format for the time being. I do plan to learning mapping in UDMF, and I already know how to map with DB2 (which is pretty much the basis for GZDB BF). But that might not happen soon, as I am juggling multiple projects at the moment.

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-09-29)

by Ed the Bat » Sun Sep 30, 2018 20:12

Then yes, I misunderstood. Well, if we're keeping the Doom monsters in "Six Ways to Die" and "SpaceX", I can certainly go along with that, but we still need a way to accommodate them. If Doom 2 isn't being loaded alongside the game, these monsters will have no sprites and sounds. I suppose I could copy in the files from Freedoom, or something, or stop players from playing these maps unless Doom 2 is detected...

And I have held off on converting the maps to UDMF, specifically so as to help accommodate your mapping. I know you prefer older tools that don't support UDMF, and that's totally fine with me. I do feel it might be useful to you to someday spend some time playing with a newer tool like GZDoom Builder Bugfix, but I'd never try to force you. Besides, converting to UDMF would only grant me a few small conveniences, so it's no big deal to stay with Hexen format, for now.

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-09-29)

by Rex Claussen » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:40

Ed the Bat wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 15:17
I am 100 percent in favor of #1. Ever since I turned the project into a standalone ipk3, I've been worrying about how to accommodate the Doom monsters. I'll be happy to see them replaced.
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't thinking of changing the existing maps to replace the DooM enemies; merely copying those maps into 2 new map slots and changing the enemies (and, in the case of the space station map, reversing the game-play progression).

However, if you need the DooM enemies in the existing maps to be swapped out for H-L enemies, I can do that in lieu of my current plan. The main problem I foresee is if you've converted the original map formats from HeXen to UDMF. I won't be able to work in the UDMF format, never having learned how. I could, of course, make the changes in the current (HeXen) format, and you can convert them and add whatever modifications you've already made to those maps.

Let's split this discussion into another thread.

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-09-29)

by Ed the Bat » Sat Sep 29, 2018 15:17

I am 100 percent in favor of #1. Ever since I turned the project into a standalone ipk3, I've been worrying about how to accommodate the Doom monsters. I'll be happy to see them replaced.

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-09-29)

by Rex Claussen » Sat Sep 29, 2018 13:48

Update on Sept. 29, 2018

Map 29 (Space Station): I have Made some progress on the interior of the space station's "spindle". It, too, is built with 2 levels and the challenge is to make one level distinguishable from the level above.
Map 30 (Xen Space): All mapping had already been completed
Map 31 (Xen Space): This is a map set in 3 craters. All mapping for one of the craters is done
Map 32 (Xen Temple): This is a map set in the interior of a quasi-temple. About 15% of the mapping is done

I am considering re-purposing 2 of the "bonus" maps in Paranoiac. These are the 2 maps in the stand-alone "Obliteration" chapter, and I'm proposing the following:

1. I want to remove the DooM enemies and replace them with Half-Life enemies
2. The normal exit in the first of the 2 maps will take you to the second map (the massive space station).
3. I am considering creating a small map to which you'll go if you find the secret exit in the first map.
4. I want to reverse the progression of the space station map, so that the player is starting from the original exit point and returning to the original start point.

Oh, and the mapping part of the project has a name: Parallax

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-06-20)

by Rex Claussen » Wed Jun 20, 2018 17:09

I agree that "reality" is a fluid concept in computer games, and we can bend it to suit our needs.

As for using Otis in the Xen maps, he can clearly manage just fine on the space station map, which is entirely enclosed. The Xen map I've completed does have a couple of "buildings", but a fair amount of the map is outdoors. (The buildings are really built using Xen architecture.) The other Xen maps I plan to do are mostly outdoors or in caves.

The more I think about it, the more I feel we should do a separate set of maps for the Otis Shift experience, set in Black Mesa.

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-06-20)

by Ed the Bat » Wed Jun 20, 2018 14:44

If you want to put Otis in Xen, we could come up with some kind of cop-out excuse, like equipping him with a small rebreather apparatus or something. This is sci-fi; the sky's the limit.

Or perhaps we can split the difference and put a building in Xen? It would fit with the canon established in Half-Life, where Black Mesa had built outpost facilities on Xen... if I'm remembering it right. That could have just been in user-made campaigns I played, but still, I think it's a valid writing device, if we wanna use it.

Re: Update on New Maps (2018-05-13)

by Rex Claussen » Wed Jun 20, 2018 14:40

June 20: 2018: I have completed mapping on one Xen map, and have made reasonable progress on a space station map that will occupy Map slot 29, and will serve as a hub. The execution of his map has proven to be a major pain in the butt-hocks for two reasons: First, it is a circular space station (more like a torus/donut) with a central "spindle" connected to the outer ring; working with circular structures is always a challenge, because of the odd angles and linedef lengths/texturing. Second, the outer ring is virtually completely 3D, with sloped ceilings and floors, and having 2 levels. Oh, joy! Imagine the fun I'm having inserting new sectors to be sandwiched between sloped 3D ceilings and sloped 3D floors, all with odd angles (making texture choices challenging).

On a separate note, I considered making the Xen hub the one for the Otis Shift maps. The problem, however, is one of "logic" (if there is such a thing in sci-fi computer games). Rolf Bellmer or Gordon Freeman can jump around in Xen space with abandon, as they have their HEV suits (which, presumably, include self-contained breathing apparatus). Otis, on the other hand, doesn't. In other words, he would choke on the different Xen atmosphere, and his adventures would be brief, indeed. Ah, well; back to the drawing board.

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