Map03: Issues

Moderator: Rex Claussen

User avatar
Rex Claussen
Developer
Developer
Posts: 2399
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 18:36
Contact:

Map03: Issues

Post by Rex Claussen » Tue Aug 29, 2017 17:15

I downloaded the latest build of Paranoidiac, and played through a bit of the original levels, including MAP03. I noticed a couple of things that ought to be addressed:

1. After crossing the bridge a couple of Vortigaunts are spawned, which proceed to attack/be attacked by a couple of human soldiers. In one of my play-throughs one soldier and one Vortigaunt were killed. The other soldier and the other Vortigaunt ignored each other. [This issue was first raised during the scripted fights for Paranoiac's opening cut-scene, and will likely apply throughout the game where there are inter-species fights.]

And, holy shit! Did you see the new model for the armor station? Wow!

User avatar
Ed the Bat
Developer
Developer
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:35

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Ed the Bat » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:12

I always assumed this was a limitation of Doom's somewhat primitive monster AI, as once a monster targets a player, said player becomes priority over all else, even if they're told to hate a specific actor via TID. If I come up with any ways to work around this, I'll be sure to implement them wherever they seem to be necessary.

And, again, very glad you like the Decay charging stations! Changing them into models gave me a good excuse to move the logic out of ACS and into an actor, which was very helpful in removing redundancy and making them more flexible.

User avatar
Rex Claussen
Developer
Developer
Posts: 2399
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 18:36
Contact:

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Rex Claussen » Wed Aug 30, 2017 13:55

While I love the new HEV charging station model, there appears to be a minor visual bug - z-fighting seems to be occurring at the lower end of the model. If you can't find the location please let me know and I'll post a screen pic.

User avatar
Ed the Bat
Developer
Developer
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:35

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Ed the Bat » Wed Aug 30, 2017 16:14

I have seen this issue. I have looked into repairing this, and I'm sorry to say this is beyond my capabilities. It looks like the model itself will have to be edited in order for GZDoom to be happy with it.

User avatar
Rex Claussen
Developer
Developer
Posts: 2399
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 18:36
Contact:

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Rex Claussen » Thu Aug 31, 2017 17:55

I recall that the model for the Gluon Gun pickup had a similar issue, and it was resolved. That model was converted from mdl to md2 format by Willem Sitters at my request (via email). I noticed the z-fighting, and he promptly fixed it. This is something that Nigel could probably do for the HEV charging station model; otherwise, I can ask Sitters to do it for us.

User avatar
Ed the Bat
Developer
Developer
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:35

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Ed the Bat » Thu Aug 31, 2017 18:01

I am very happy to hear this. While I am able to convert models from mdl to md2, I cannot actually edit the models (aside from breaking apart submodels, if they happen to be made of such). There are a few other models that have this z-fighting issue, though they may not be as obvious -- for example, you may sometimes see it on the sole of the Hornet Grunt's hoof after he's been killed. I believe this texture issue is less about the models themselves, and more about how GZDoom renders them, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed, if possible. And I'm open to the idea of keeping a running list of these 'broken' models, if anyone should happen to notice more.

I had been meaning to post an open request for model help, thinking perhaps Enjay could help (I know he has far more model experience than I do), but help from anyone who is able would be very much welcome.

On a somewhat related note, I wanted help with another issue regarding these models, if anyone has information. As one can see by looking at the project files for the devbuilds, the models I converted from mdl to md2 grew considerably in filesize. I am often arguing with myself over making the game look better vs making the project file too huge just for aesthetics. If there's anything else I can do to reduce the filesize without compromising the models, that would be fantastic. Ah, if only GZDoom could directly use the Half-Life model format...

User avatar
Enjay
There is no dark side in the moon, really...
Developer
Developer
Posts: 4592
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 23:19
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Enjay » Thu Aug 31, 2017 21:07

If someone can get me the model in a suitable format, I'll have a look. MD3 is better though. It has far more precise vertex positioning. When you save a model as an MD2, all your hard work can be messed up because it rounds the vertex coordinates to pretty imprecise values. Nice sharp lines can become blunt blobs and it's also why animated MD2 models can be seen to "wobble" between frames.

User avatar
Ed the Bat
Developer
Developer
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:35

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Ed the Bat » Thu Aug 31, 2017 21:11

I am unable to convert from mdl to md3; all attempts create a psychotic mess of wild polygons. I've also found md3 to create much larger files than md2.

As for now, here is the HEV Charger model in its original mdl format:
edthebat.com/doom/paranoid/mdl/hevcharger.mdl

User avatar
Enjay
There is no dark side in the moon, really...
Developer
Developer
Posts: 4592
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 23:19
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Enjay » Thu Aug 31, 2017 22:23

I *think* this should fix the issue. Let me know if it needs to be changed.

I hope it's a straight drop-in for the one already in the game (I don't think it's position or scale has changed). However, if its position needs to be tweaked or something I can easily do that.

I've put it in a demo PK3 with a map for convenience so just load it up for a look.
Attachments
HEVCharge.pk3
(91.88 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

User avatar
Rex Claussen
Developer
Developer
Posts: 2399
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 18:36
Contact:

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Rex Claussen » Thu Aug 31, 2017 23:26

Beautiful! z-fighting all gone.

User avatar
Enjay
There is no dark side in the moon, really...
Developer
Developer
Posts: 4592
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 23:19
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Map03: Issues

Post by Enjay » Sun Sep 03, 2017 22:41

3D modelling discussion split to viewtopic.php?f=209&t=7683

Post Reply

Return to “Paranoix”