Why are we not doing this???

Advanced OpenGL source port fork from ZDoom, picking up where ZDoomGL left off.
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Cha0s
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Why are we not doing this???

Post by Cha0s » Thu Jan 22, 2015 22:37

Is GZDOOM ever gonna come out for the iOS? I know there's a whole fmod thing you gotta pay in the App Store but it can also be for cydia , there is absolutely no ports on iOS that have this one and I want to play brutal doom on the go so freaking bad. If not then can somebody out there teach me if I can switch the source port code thing on Classic Doom app with iFile and how?

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Graf Zahl » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:50

Find someone to implement touch controls and maintain the port. Otherwise, no chance.

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Gez » Fri Jan 23, 2015 21:02

Cha0s wrote:Is GZDOOM ever gonna come out for the iOS? I know there's a whole fmod thing you gotta pay in the App Store but it can also be for cydia , there is absolutely no ports on iOS that have this one and I want to play brutal doom on the go so freaking bad. If not then can somebody out there teach me if I can switch the source port code thing on Classic Doom app with iFile and how?
Maybe ask Beloko if they're planning on targeting the iOS market as well? Because there's GZDoom for Android: http://beloko.com/?page=game_doom

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Rachael » Sat Jan 24, 2015 22:10

Short answer: (Sorry you're not gonna like this)

Not everyone has every device and operating system known to man, and I know very few people maintain apple systems which are even capable of emulating iOS, much less iOS devices themselves. Also, you cannot expect non-commercial projects (or "hobby projects") to be motivated by the same interests that govern commercial projects; the development goals are almost always completely different.

Long answer:

Apple devices are very expensive, and not everyone goes with the carrier contract plans that are required in order to make them affordable. While yes, I could easily just download an iOS emulator for my MacBook, I, myself, am unwilling to commit to the time necessary to maintain such a thing.

All Apple operating systems are exclusively proprietary licenses - in other words, you cannot even legally use them outside the hardware that they were intended for.

So is it possible? Yes. Will it ever happen? Likely, but doubtfully by any of the current project maintainers. Will it happen soon? Definitely not.

So: Why are we not doing this???

Because those that would do it either don't have enough interest in it, or don't have the proper devices for it.
Spoiler: Zen Sarcasm

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Graf Zahl » Sat Jan 24, 2015 22:22

Apple is not the problem - for work I have both a Mac and an iPad - but investing the time is an entirely different matter - and I certainly have no desire whatsoever to bother with Apple's App Store submission hassle. And without that there's no distribution.

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by MetroidJunkie » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:43

http://beloko.com/?page=game_doom


Beloko Games has put D-Touch onto Android, which includes GZDoom and I can confirm works with most functions, and is available on Google Play for $2.25, although I don't think he'd be able to get it onto the App Store because Apple has a rule against emulators, which this would technically be.

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Rachael » Tue Jan 27, 2015 14:55

I guess an opinion of what an emulator is, is pretty subjective. I don't see GZDoom as an emulator at all. If it ever emulated Doom, it did so with the actual Doom source code right at the root, and I don't consider that emulation. It does not emulate a computer, either. All the functions it does do are pretty simplistic at best and cannot hold any sort of operating system nor does it require ROM files in order to even run the games (the "ROM", if you will, is contained within the executable itself).

A typical emulator requires a ROM (exceptions being PC/DOS emulators since they come with their own), in addition to the *complete* games themselves, executables and all (which are normally contained within the game's CD/cartridge image). GZDoom is a Doom.exe replacement that has all the functions Doom.exe once did, just mostly rewritten and added to.
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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Graf Zahl » Tue Jan 27, 2015 15:09

An 'Emulator' in Apple's context is an app that can run arbitrary software that matches certain reqirements.

A good example is DosBox which can be used to run any MS-DOS software and with a bit of tinkering even 16 bit Windows.
It merely means that Apple does not allow anything that allows to run software that hasn't been approved by Apple.

That's clearly not the case with a game engine that allows to run custom content. If that was the case, any game that offered some kind of downloadable content would be off limits.

But whatever. Apple sucks, they surely won't get my support.

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Rachael » Tue Jan 27, 2015 15:47

I don't like Apple's "rules and policies" either - their restrictions on their software and devices is a good way to draw users *AWAY* from their stuff, and such things also reduce compatibility with other things. It took Apple nearly 2 decades to conform to any PC standard at all and start getting Intel processors for their Macintosh brand. Of course they went a step ahead and dismissed the whole BIOS thing completely and went straight to EFI, which hurt compatibility with operating systems that didn't support it (but luckily Boot Camp included a BIOS emulator that could run Windows XP).

But the upside to it is, they have very high manufacturing standards, and anyone that manufactures on behalf of Apple has to use higher quality parts than what has become standard for home PC's or other Microsoft/Android devices; they can't just grab random garbage right off the shelf. Other than batteries - where Apple is notorious for failing horribly with - any Apple device that you own will last years, long past its actual support period. Apple devices don't typically break on their own unless you abuse them horribly (which you never should do to any expensive device, period, I don't know why people do that).
Spoiler: Zen Sarcasm

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by MetroidJunkie » Tue Jan 27, 2015 16:02

I guess Apple would only consider it an emulator in the sense that it would require files (WADS) that you have to put on there yourself, which I guess Apple equates to how console emulators use roms. Guess Apple just plain doesn't like apps that read certain kinds of files that the user has to put in there themselves (Games with downloadable content would be different, given it wouldn't be the user providing the files but the developer and Apple gets control over what kind of files are permitted), given you need to jailbreak just to run your own apps. Oh well, at least Android has a workable version of GZDoom which is more than I would have expected and it works nicely for me because I vastly prefer Android anyway.

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Graf Zahl » Tue Jan 27, 2015 16:42

Apple doesn't like anything they can't control themselves.

As an app developer I actually have experienced the shadier side of their more questionable tactics. Which is precisely why I would never buy nor recomment any Apple product.

Until a few years back they still had Steve Jobs to ensure that all that remained user friendly but without him, the real sharks will take over sooner or later. I believe the downward sprial has already started, but so far it hasn't reached a state where this shows up on the average user's radar. But as I said, as a developer I inevitably see some developments that spell trouble - just for example the app submission process is becoming an increasing hassle where you have to deal with self-inflated idiots that think they can dictate anything they want.

Funny thing: I strongly believe that without the ability to run Windows, Apple wouldn't be able to sell half the Macs they actually sell.

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Rachael » Tue Jan 27, 2015 18:48

Graf Zahl wrote:Funny thing: I strongly believe that without the ability to run Windows, Apple wouldn't be able to sell half the Macs they actually sell.
I actually believe that as well. I think the move to Intel processors is the single smartest thing Apple has ever done in its entire existence, because the Macintosh brand (often referred colloquially to as "Macintrash" at the time) was so incompatible with most of the commercially available software at the time that the cost of ownership of one was extremely high - and the most major software developers that were already developing for the Mac (such as Adobe) were cross-platforming with Windows systems as well anyway, so to save yourself a headache in the long run you'd just go ahead and buy a Windows PC.

At the time even Windows 98, which was very cheap, but already nearing its end-of-support period, was still capable of running far more apps than Mac OS X was; Microsoft had just barely introduced the Windows NT series to the home PC market with Windows XP and Windows Vista betas were already being tested.

Mac OS X had seen such little use that the first virus ever to appear for it was actually celebrated. It meant that it was finally getting enough exposure for malware authors to finally decide to target it, although it was quickly followed with the desire to "kill this bug quickly."
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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by MetroidJunkie » Tue Jan 27, 2015 19:54

Which makes me wonder why so many people even get a Mac in the first place. If they're just going to run Windows on it, then they're better off getting a PC since they're cheaper in relation to hardware power and, unlike Macs, you can actually upgrade individual parts which is much cheaper than getting a brand new machine. :lol:

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Graf Zahl » Tue Jan 27, 2015 21:08

I have no idea why people pay Apple's high prices. The 'better build quality' is definitely a fairy tale, even with regular PCs, the first items to bite the dust are always worn out hard drives.
Aside from that I upgraded when my old system's specs became too low.

But say what you want, that's always the first argument I hear.

Oh, btw, my boss is a staunch Mac user, but of course he's forced to spend a significant amount of time using Windows in a VM because of stuff the Mac cannot do. Won't sway him, though. :mrgreen:

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Re: Why are we not doing this???

Post by Rachael » Tue Jan 27, 2015 21:57

Graf Zahl wrote:I have no idea why people pay Apple's high prices. The 'better build quality' is definitely a fairy tale, even with regular PCs, the first items to bite the dust are always worn out hard drives.
Some users just don't know better. I actually did it so I could develop software targeting Mac systems, but that was before I knew that Mac OS X changed editions more frequently than Windows did, and obsoleted old ones to boot far more quickly. I think OS X 10.4 which came with my Mac was officially unsupported within a couple of years of me getting it - and the worst part was, OS X 10.6 was already out! Free upgrades? Yeah, forget that. Apple won't do it.
Graf Zahl wrote:Oh, btw, my boss is a staunch Mac user, but of course he's forced to spend a significant amount of time using Windows in a VM because of stuff the Mac cannot do. Won't sway him, though. :mrgreen:
He might be the kind of guy who has far more money than sense.

No one has ever said Mac is perfect, and this topic proves that it is anything but, but for acquiring a cult following, much like anything else that makes it to mass media, Mac has a strong and very loyal one.

I will say, having one myself has helped me learn quite a bit about them, though, things that have been very valuable to me with navigating my school's computers and even at times helping them with their own Mac disasters.

Despite being 7 years old, its CPU is still extremely strong and I occasionally have it do CPU-intensive tasks like compressing a large amount of files which it can do extremely well. And, GZDoom runs with mostly flawless frame rates on it even with more intensive mods. Its biggest problem is, it only has 2 gigabytes of RAM, and is only expandable to 4. If it weren't for that, it still would be the most powerful computer in my home right now. But for equivalent specs, yes, the hardware it currently has can be attained much cheaper even when I got it.

I use both Boot Camp and VirtualBox on it, though, mostly it just sits idle these days running Windows 7 (w/ Boot Camp) and Skype.
Spoiler: Zen Sarcasm

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