GZDoom goes SVN!

[Enjay]

it should be obvious that a reasonable release schedule for ZDoom is a hopeless wish. It has been one year and 3 months now.

And that, unfortunately, is the core of the problem. There has hardly been any Zdoom specific WADs released recently that don't rely on SVN features (RfOIV being the most notable exception). As Graf said, it's been a year and a quarter since the last official build of Zdoom and there have been "new" features in it that people have wanted to use all that time.

Then there is the additional complication that both GZdoom and, as a result, SkullTag "official" versions (albeit that Skulltag is a beta - as it always has been) are based on Zdoom's unofficial code. So what is official anyway? Therein, of course, lies Graf's frustration with the situation. He's building his code on a shifting, unofficial, sand.

Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle I guess. I didn't start using the Zdoom SVNs until very recently. The main reason for this was that I was using GZdoom more and more and Zdoom held less and less direct interest. GZdoom was clearly getting regular support from Graf and was "official" whereas I just kept Zdoom 2.1.7 on my HD, rather than an SVN, because of my own notion that it was "official". I guess it was at some point I realised that a lot of the bugs I was noticing in GZdoom could be Zdoom bugs but I had no way of telling because the version of Zdoom I was using was so old. So I grabbed whatever the current SVN was at the time and now I'm now really "into" SVN builds. I love the fact that on an almost daily basis I can grab a new version and see which bugs are fixed and start using new features immediately. Perhaps because a lot of my work is quite "selfish" (ie I edit for my own amusement and the results often don't have to be made public) the wider compatibility thing is less of an issue for me. And that brings us back to that core problem. It's been over a year since Randy drew a line in the sand and said "there's your benchmarks lads, crack on". So there is now a community of Zdoom users, a large proportion of which, who use the SVNs and who regard it as the current version and another large number who don't. If there had been a more recent official Zdoom and a regular official release schedule, I'm sure that situation would not exist. Quite why it has been allowed to get to that pint, I don't know.

The development tool side of SVN things is obviously huge. If Randy or Graf make their code available then bugs can get picked up within hours of the problem going into the code. If SVN versions were not available, then those bugs could potentially sit there for months (in Zdoom's case) and then if an "official" version got released there would be a whole mess of bugs to be picked up in one giant bug swarm .

[Gez]

And I will use it like that. But it should be obvious that a reasonable release schedule for ZDoom is a hopeless wish. It has been one year and 3 months now.

I think that what is needed is to temporarily close the feature suggestion forum. Only bug reports (and bugfix patch submissions) allowed. No coding work except for bugfixing. No more sidetracking.

As soon as the ZDoom bugs (not counting vexing bugs) stays empty for, say, one week; then you know you've got your official version. Release it as 2.1.8 or as 2.2.0. Rejoice, package and announce the release, and open back the suggestion forums.

[Graf Zahl]

Forget it! That way there will never be a new version.

[RazTK]

Yes I know the link to his compilied version is in this thread. But what happens if he changes hosts, or if he passes the compiling torch to somebody else.

Then I'll make sure I let you know about it. Surely you don't think I'm the only who can compile from source, it's just that I'm the one who happen to make a project out of it.

My builds are not and never were an official part of ZDoom (and/or GZDoom), and the reason there's a link to them on the Wiki is because someone who happen to use these builds added it. If you (and/or someone else) want to remove it, go ahead, I promise you I won't add it back.

However, so long as there is an "official" version of published software, the public should not be expected to seek out other versions, such as SVN. [Case in point - when the EDIV: Return from Oblivion demo was released, it was expected that players would use the latest publicly released version of ZDooM - v2.1.7. Why would the team have incorporated features that the general public would not benefit from (or worse, have a problem with) by using the most widely available version of ZDooM?]

If someone decides to make a project with features found only in the SVN then that's his (and may eventually become others) problem and responsibility since he and ONLY he forces you to either compile the source, or download/find a compiled version. Nobody tells/forces you (or the "public" and other users, in this matter), to use them.

And just to make it clear, I'm just expressing my feelings and opinions here, nothing else.

[Rex Claussen]

If someone decides to make a project with features found only in the SVN then that's his (and may eventually become others) problem and responsibility since he and ONLY he forces you to either compile the source, or download/find a compiled version. Nobody tells/forces you (or the "public" and other users, in this matter), to use them.

I agree completely. But then, nothing I have written in this regard contradicts what you said. In fact, I specifically stated that there is a place for SVN in software development. I was simply making a case for official releases.

[Gez]

There will never be a new version.

Well, what else is new?