GZDoom 2.2.0 released

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by aivar242 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 17:35

1) The port has been added to quick save game progress but while maintaining the no label in the upper left corner of the game is saved.
2) In the port of the main menu there is an option - Reset to default settings ... Here this option needs to be done in each submenu because very often you change the settings and then do not remember as it was by default so you have to drop everything on the menu default settings.

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by The Ultimate DooMer » Mon Sep 26, 2016 19:44

Possibly a daft question, but is there much difference between x32 and x64 versions? (I've seen some comments saying that there isn't)

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Graf Zahl » Mon Sep 26, 2016 20:02

Aside from 64 bit being 'the future', no. It's the same code so obviously the biggest advantage of 64 bit will be that mods can allocate a lot more RAM if the machine has it.
But as things stand, 32 bit is a fading technology, those who ignore 64 bit now will eventually be left behind.

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Rachael » Mon Sep 26, 2016 20:02

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:Possibly a daft question, but is there much difference between x32 and x64 versions? (I've seen some comments saying that there isn't)
To your eye - no.

Under the hood - definitely yes.

Graf says x64's are easier to debug - plus they are allowed to exceed the 4-gig memory barrier. Also, x64's can use more CPU registers, which also makes them a bit faster (if the compiler is optimized for it).
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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by theleo_ua » Mon Sep 26, 2016 21:59

About "32 vs 64": I have a mod with a lot of hires textures, 3dmodels and sounds. Loading a level in this mod requires approx 45 secs, and consumes approx 2GB of RAM. Using x32 build of 2.1.1, I received next problems:

1) A lot of lags during game, expecially if actors with "3d models" appear at first time, or after long time without them
2) Some levels are even crashed GZDoom (and later I understood, that the problem was that those levels required more RAM than x32 version of GZdoom can allow (more than 2GB in that case) )

Yes - 2GB, not 4GB, it sounds strange even for me, but it was exactly as I said.

Then I tried to use 2.1.1 x64, and received next benefits:

1) No lags
2) No crashes
3) My personal experience: levels are loaded faster (textures / models / sounds). Maybe it's related to HQ4x mmx, but I don't know exact reason

Also, same problems are reproduced by streamers of my mod (and disappeared when tried x64 build)

So, now I don't consider x32 version for personal use and for streamers of my mods (the only exception is 32-bit OS, for example WinXP)

P.S. This is not a bugreport, just personal experience
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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Rachael » Mon Sep 26, 2016 22:12

I think what's happening with the x32 is the operating-system specific files are being loaded alongside GZDoom, and in Windows a system whose name pretty much means "Windows x32-on-Windows x64" - the name is actually a bit literal, Windows has to load a separate subset of libraries for 32-bit in order to function properly. In doing this, the total application cannot exceed 4 gigs of RAM and if I had to guess, that also includes all of Windows' x32 dynamic objects, which is causing it to thrash to the page file even if your system is doing well on memory otherwise. But I am not positive on this, someone who knows a bit more about Windows' inner workings can probably correct me.
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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Graf Zahl » Mon Sep 26, 2016 22:23

The hard limit for application address space is indeed 4 GB minus system libraries. Windows has to map everything it needs into the application's address space. This doesn't mean that this stuff is loaded multiple times into RAM, only mapped from its original position, but it does take up a significant portion of the the virtual memory pool of 4GB. Something that consumes 2GB of RAM will definitely cause problems with 32 bit, even if the extended address range is being used.

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by theleo_ua » Mon Sep 26, 2016 22:32

Eruanna wrote:causing it to thrash to the page file
btw page files are turned off on my PC, maybe this caused crashes of GZdoom
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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Graf Zahl » Mon Sep 26, 2016 22:45

Definitely. If you turn off the page file the OS can become extremely slow if the available memory gets exhausted. I normally run with page file off, too, because I see no point to overstress my SSD, but you have to be extremely careful not to load too much stuff at the same time. How much RAM do you have?

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by theleo_ua » Mon Sep 26, 2016 22:52

16GB, Win7 x64 ultimate
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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Nash » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:45

For the GZDoom-derived game I'm developing, I'm not even building x86 executables anymore. :mrgreen: Will make my game exclusively x64 because it won't be released anytime soon anyway and I want to make sure the game is able to allocate more than 2 GB of memory for graphics, textures, models etc.

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Rachael » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:08

Some of the more modern games have started not releasing x86 executables as well. Overwatch and Fallout 4 are a couple examples.
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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Graf Zahl » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:29

I think the resource demands of modern games are so high that there's no point anymore to do 32bit builds for new games. Seriously, when was the last time that new computers were shipped with a 32 bit OS? It has been many, many years and those systems will be far to weak these days to run a modern game.

Of course the main perpetrator to blame here is Microsoft (again), who, instead of using the Win10 upgrade as an opportunity to move forward and offer a 64 bit version for anyone who had the proper hardware, they only did so for users who already owned a 64 bit license. All 32 bit users were essentially stuck. To be blunt, they should have stopped making 32 bit OSs at all by now.

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by Gez » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:30

Graf Zahl wrote:To be blunt, they should have stopped making 32 bit OSs at all by now.
Fully agreed. Any hardware capable of running Windows 10 at all is 64-bit.

AMD stopped producing 32-bit CPUs in 2005 (Athlon XP); Intel in 2003 for the desktop (Pentium III) and 2008 for laptops (Pentium M).

For XP, sure, there was still a large number of 32-bit-only computers. Windows Vista? Sure, for the lower-end laptops that were still running on Pentium M. Windows 7? Okay, but purely as an update option, not as a new install because by then any new computer would have 64-bit hardware, guaranteed. Windows 8 is when they should have totally severed 32-bit versions.

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Re: GZDoom 2.2.0 released

Post by theleo_ua » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:58

Eruanna wrote:Some of the more modern games have started not releasing x86 executables as well. Overwatch and Fallout 4 are a couple examples.
Also Doom 2016
Graf Zahl wrote:To be blunt, they should have stopped making 32 bit OSs at all by now.
Agree. Before first Win10 beta "release", I thought that Win10 will be only x64
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