Size limit in Doom format maps?

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Zhadoom
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Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Wed Jan 07, 2015 17:11

Hello!

Is there a limit to the Doom format maps, when using zdbsp and GZDoom?

In other words:
Is there a maximum number of sectors, vertices, lines etc.?

How likely are slime trails in Doom format maps, when running in GZDoom?

Many thanks
zhd

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Gez
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Gez » Wed Jan 07, 2015 22:55

Maximum number of map elements depends on format. If you use UDMF, it's virtually unlimited. In binary map formats (Doom or Hexen formats) then there's a hard limit of 65535 elements of each type that needs to be referenced by other elements. For example, you can have more than 65535 things, but you cannot have more than 65535 sidedefs. The sidedefs limit is usually the first reached.

The usual kind of slime trails (caused by lack of precision in vertices added by the nodebuilder) will not happen in GZDoom's hardware renderer.

Zhadoom
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Thu Jan 08, 2015 17:38

Many thanks, Gez! :D
The usual kind of slime trails (caused by lack of precision in vertices added by the nodebuilder) will not happen in GZDoom's hardware renderer.
Does this mean that slime trails can appear in ZDoom, but not in GZDoom?

zhd

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Gez
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Gez » Fri Jan 09, 2015 16:01

Well, you can use the software renderer in GZDoom, and then you get the same result as in ZDoom.

But with the hardware renderer, there is no slime trail.

Zhadoom
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Fri Jan 09, 2015 16:48

Thanks a lot! :D

Okay, I'll go and try my maps with just the software renderer and see, if there are any slime trails.

And in deed, I've never ever seen slime trails with GZDoom so far.

zhd

Zhadoom
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Mon Mar 02, 2015 17:06

Uhm well, I've a few more questions on this issue. :idea:

1.
WHY is it, that slime trails don't appear in GZDoom? Because of a more precise storage of the gl-nodes?

2.
If one places vertices not snapped to the 8x8 grid provided by several (most) editors, does this do any "harm" like slowing the game down or the like?

:bfg:

Thanks
zhd

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Gez
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Gez » Tue Mar 03, 2015 14:59

Zhadoom wrote:WHY is it, that slime trails don't appear in GZDoom? Because of a more precise storage of the gl-nodes?
Yes, basically.

Doom's original nodebuilder can leave tiny gaps between sectors due to lack of precision for vertex position. These gaps, combined with the "flood fill" technique used for flat rendering, results in slime trails.

There is another issue with the original nodebuilder in that it does not necessarily create concave subsectors. OpenGL requires concave nodes, so GZDoom will use GL nodes if present (and will create them while loading the level if they are missing). Since GL nodes have greater precision, they do not leave gaps. Furthermore, rendering flats is not done in a flood-fill manner like in the software renderer, so even if there were visible gaps they would not result in slime trails.

Zhadoom
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Tue Mar 03, 2015 17:15

Hi GEZ! :wink:

Many thanks for this explanation. :cheers:

So, one should prefere GZDoom over other ports, whenever possible, right? :wink:

Kind regards!
zhd

Zhadoom
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Thu Oct 01, 2015 16:23

Hello hello!

Okay, is there a way to convert maps in Doom format including GZDoom-linedef types?

I tried zwadconv + wad2udmf
Basically, this works fine. The maps look allright and work properly. However, linedef types like 281 are completly gone after user zwadconv. They turn into linedefs with no action. Also slope linedefs are action-less and linedef typs 4xx
All these are listed in the xlat-lumps in gzdoom.pk3. Hence, is there a way, that zwadconv can use the information of an xlat file?

And another question:

What parameters do I have to give to zdbsp in order to build an udmf map?

Kind regards!
zhd

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Gez
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Gez » Thu Oct 01, 2015 21:34

Unfortunately, zwadconv is a very old program that hasn't been updated for years. Its conversions are hardcoded and it cannot be made to use xlat.


ZDBSP shouldn't need any special parameter to work with UDMF maps. If ZDBSP doesn't process a UDMF map correctly, it might be because you use a very old version of it dating back from before UDMF existed? If so update it! :wink:

Zhadoom
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Fri Oct 02, 2015 15:59

Hi Gez! :wink:

Thanks for the reply!
I use zdbsp 1.18.1 and it works fine. I was wondering, however, if it needed particular parameters for udmf files like for example -X

Kind regards!
zhd

Zhadoom
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Wed Feb 03, 2016 17:07

Hi! :D

Well, finally all of my maps have successfully been converted to udmf. :D

Now I wonder if there is polyobject bleeding in GZDoom at all?
Or does it not occur due to the necessity for concave nodes?

Bye!
zhd

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Gez
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Gez » Thu Feb 04, 2016 17:38

There shouldn't be any problem with BSP.

Zhadoom
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Re: Size limit in Doom format maps?

Post by Zhadoom » Fri Feb 05, 2016 16:59

Thank you! :cheers:

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