7zip archives [Poll]

Stuff that's here --> Main page
User avatar
Rachael
Developer
Developer
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 10:30

7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Rachael » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:07

There is currently some discussion about moving to 7zip archives for our (G)ZDoom builds.

There are pro's and con's to this issue, and I think every person should have their own say. Please be aware, that like all of my polls, I will be paying much more attention to the replies and discussion in this thread than the poll itself - and I will be basing my final decision on what I feel is best for the community.

1) Pro's
- 7zip archives are, in fact, smaller. And in every revision, G&ZDoom both only get bigger.
- 7zip is free. http://www.7-zip.org/ - 7zip archivers typically do not require purchase or registration, are open source, and pretty much free of BS.
- 7zip is a "solid" archiver - i.e. the entire archive is compressed, not every file individually.
- Zip is obsolete.

2) Con's
- Not supported by WinZip.
- Not supported by some of the other popular commercial archivers.
- Zip is widely supported because it has been around far longer.

I honestly think transitioning to 7zip is the best move - it is a space saver, and while it's not a drastically huge difference, it's enough of a difference that it matters.

To respond to this poll, please click here.
Spoiler: Zen Sarcasm

User avatar
Super Jamie
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:39
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: 7zip archives

Post by Super Jamie » Mon Feb 22, 2010 22:16

For between-release SVN binaries and other builds intended for more technically-inclined people I don't think it will be an issue.

For final releases, there are enough unskilled computer users out there that I think anything more complex than Windows' right-click and Extract will cause more problems than it's worth.

Voted No. (edit: well I'd vote no if it let me, I just get "The submitted form was invalid. Try submitting again.")

User avatar
Gez
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 16:47

Re: 7zip archives

Post by Gez » Mon Feb 22, 2010 23:10

Super Jamie wrote:Voted No. (edit: well I'd vote no if it let me, I just get "The submitted form was invalid. Try submitting again.")
You too?


Anyway, SVN builds are never "final releases". Those would be official builds on the official site for the concerned port or editor.

User avatar
Rachael
Developer
Developer
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 10:30

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Rachael » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:00

Okay, since 3 people have reported that polls are broken, I've removed it. (I don't know why they're broken) However, the "poll" is still open - please reply to this topic to state your opinion and it will be counted.

And yes, one word posts are allowed. :P
Spoiler: Zen Sarcasm

User avatar
NeoHippo
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 0:47
Location: British Columbia Canada

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by NeoHippo » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:33

You might as well go with 7-Zip.

It comes with its own file manager which is very similar to the one used in WinZip, so that users of WinZip really should not have any difficulty. The pro's outweigh the con's.

User avatar
Graf Zahl
GZDoom Developer
GZDoom Developer
Posts: 7148
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:48
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Graf Zahl » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:28

People really should get rid of that cursed WinZip. I really don't get it why this non-free program is so popular when there's more than enough free alternatives.

User avatar
Remmirath
"Ikorose..."
DRD Team Admin (Inactive)
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 19:43
Location: Somewhere...
Contact:

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Remmirath » Tue Feb 23, 2010 13:48

7-Zip all the way :P
SoulPriestess wrote:Good job, Morpheus! You are teh awesum!

User avatar
Enjay
There is no dark side in the moon, really...
Developer
Developer
Posts: 4600
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 23:19
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Enjay » Tue Feb 23, 2010 16:54

I have no strong preference.

CSonicGo
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:35

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by CSonicGo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:42

Most of these builds are for windows, right?
Windows 98(plus) and up have zip file management built in. We're finally at a point where ZIP archives are handled by the OS, now people want to switch to 7z? I would have to download another application to extract files from a 7z archive. how is this any different than ZIP files pre-98 where people had to download WinZIP or something else? This isn't even needed. Compression ratios be damned, This is only making another barrier for people to use these builds. ZIP is far from obsolete, as it has much wider support (even my mobile phone has ZIP support). The ODF format, a standard considered by the ISO committee, used ZIP format for compression - evidence that ZIP is just as relevant as ever.

The only pro I can agree with is minimal space gain. however, These files are small uncompressed by 2010 standards.

On a side note: few people have used winzip since XP handled ZIP natively. stop saying otherwise.

My vote: no.

Blzut3
Developer
Developer
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 22:21

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Blzut3 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:01

Graf Zahl wrote:People really should get rid of that cursed WinZip. I really don't get it why this non-free program is so popular when there's more than enough free alternatives.
You should be somewhat happy if people actually use the WinZip program since according to Wikipedia it supports all the alternate compression methods (LZMA included). In addition according to their site they do support the 7z format among others.

The problem is, I think, most people refer to the fact that Windows can open zip files as directories as "WinZip" which does none of this. In fact from the program names I heard, this may be the only thing that people commonly use that doesn't support 7z files.

If I have any say in this poll (I see no reason why I should, dmgs have their own compression (specifically bzip2) and I don't use use Windows) I would say go for it.

User avatar
Rachael
Developer
Developer
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 10:30

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Rachael » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:19

You should be somewhat happy if people actually use the WinZip program since according to Wikipedia it supports all the alternate compression methods (LZMA included). In addition according to their site they do support the 7z format among others.
Not my version of WinZip, it's too old. But then again, I only bought it once, and that's the only time I'm going to buy it. I'm not buying into the ridiculous "buy your upgrade" scheme when every version of the software does exactly the same thing - and when upgrades had once been free with WinZip (why change now?!). It's one reason why I still use Windows XP on my main computer.

Besides, I have command line zip tools that do exactly the same thing WinZip does, and more effectively, so I only use WinZip for a graphical view of zip files now anyway.

That aside, my vote is to move to 7zip format. It's really only one extra program you need (would it REALLY kill you to download one program, compared to the number of times you update your SVN version anyway?), and many people already have it anyway - and it would save me on hosting costs if I ever go above my bandwidth allocation.
Spoiler: Zen Sarcasm

User avatar
Enjay
There is no dark side in the moon, really...
Developer
Developer
Posts: 4600
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 23:19
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Enjay » Wed Feb 24, 2010 20:31

One thing that is perhaps worth considering is the interface of 7zip - or more specifically how people might feel about it. I suspect that for the "average user" (whatever that may be) the non-MS looking, slightly non-standard appearance and way of working may be off-putting. It's just quirky enough that some people may find it to be "one of those techy-geeky tools" that they'd rather not have to deal with. Even I find it a little odd and it feels like those old early Windows utils that were a bit weird looking and niche from back in the early Win95 days (you know the ones that used courier-like fonts and had amateurishly drawn icons and buttons).

User avatar
Graf Zahl
GZDoom Developer
GZDoom Developer
Posts: 7148
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:48
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Graf Zahl » Wed Feb 24, 2010 23:29

Enjay wrote:Even I find it a little odd and it feels like those old early Windows utils that were a bit weird looking and niche from back in the early Win95 days (you know the ones that used courier-like fonts and had amateurishly drawn icons and buttons).


You mean like those tools who did not overload the user with pointless nonsense and come straight to the point?
There should be more of those.

User avatar
Enjay
There is no dark side in the moon, really...
Developer
Developer
Posts: 4600
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 23:19
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Enjay » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:10

Yes, I mean those and I have no problem with them (I use quite a few). However, their appearance, basic presentation and "non-MS appearance" does put some people off and I think that 7zip perhaps comes under that category.

However, like I said, I have no strong preference for zip versus 7z. I'm just mentioning something that might be a concern for some people - ie downloading a "techy feeling tool" that they may be uncomfortable with and which they may consider that they only need for one purpose: extracting SVN builds of (G)Zdoom. "Why the hell should I download that funny 7zip thing just because DRD says so". It may happen. :dunno:

User avatar
Graf Zahl
GZDoom Developer
GZDoom Developer
Posts: 7148
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:48
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: 7zip archives [Poll]

Post by Graf Zahl » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:34

Enjay wrote:Yes, I mean those and I have no problem with them (I use quite a few). However, their appearance, basic presentation and "non-MS appearance" does put some people off and I think that 7zip perhaps comes under that category.

Fortunately not all developers follow every retarded trend that's on the market.

Besides, MS's appearance changes more often than developers can follow. Who wants to code something that needs a differenr implementatzion for each Windows version (and each skin?)

If people are put off by this, I'm sorry but they are idiots.

Locked

Return to “News”