Forgotten Doom Engine Based Games.

DuduKrazy · Post by **DuduKrazy** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 16:55

i see lots of doom mods everywhere. but what about the Doom clones like Heretic, Hexen or Strife? why i don't see people releasing mods for those games?

Post by **Paul** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 19:33

Most likely because Doom is more popular. More people own the Doom2.wad = more people will play a mod for Doom2 rather than Hexen. But I always tought Strife and Hexen beat Doom's atmosphere and gameplay.

jallamann · Post by **jallamann** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 20:15

But with the powers the modders have today, such atmospheres can be recreated in Doom 2, meaning mostly everyone involved in the community can play it easily.
I know I don't own Hexen or Heretic (Heretic has a global fanbase of, what, 14 people anyway?) and I'm far from alone about that. So Pavel is right, if it's released for Doom(2), more people can/will play it.

TheDarkArchon · Post by **TheDarkArchon** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 22:12

Also, FreeDooM is a DooM 2 IWAD so a DooM 2 mod is potentially universal.

Deathsong12 · Post by **Deathsong12** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:05

jallamann wrote:But with the powers the modders have today, such atmospheres can be recreated in Doom 2, meaning mostly everyone involved in the community can play it easily.
I know I don't own Hexen or Heretic (Heretic has a global fanbase of, what, 14 people anyway?) and I'm far from alone about that. So Pavel is right, if it's released for Doom(2), more people can/will play it.

Yes. but there is a difference between can and do. The fact that things like the TNT maps and KDiZD are considered the highest level of quality propagate this idea that Doom's atmoshpere must be used to make a mod worth playing, which is totally wrong. To be honest, I'm getting pretty sick of barouqe, detail-filled levels and demons as monsters. I'd like to see more clean lines and different monster themes.

Snarboo · Post by **Snarboo** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:28

I agree with Deathsong's point. Doom modifications are starting to become old hat, and the newest techniques for level making seems to be putting in as much detail as possible. That is not to say that I want mods for Doom to cease, or that I will ever stop editing for it. It's just the only game anybody seems to make mods for. What's the point of having source ports that can run multiple Doom engine games if only one of them is receiving new content on a regular basis? It seems the only reason this is done is so people can take advantage of new features in other games for Doom mods, heh!

Games like Strife or Heretic really haven't seen their full potential yet. Strife was the peak of Doom level editing, IMO. That was due in part to the superior art direction Strife had, which was able to balance both architecture and texture detailing to create a world that was neither too detailed nor barren. I would love to see more mods that explore and take advantage of the style and world of Heretic or Strife.

Post by **wildweasel** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:20

Well, from the point of view of the weapon modder, working with Heretic or Strife would present new opportunities regarding the setting - it's an entirely new game to work with, with more different ways to balance and a whole new set of levels to play with them. Plus the new palettes make for weapons with unique color schemes (isn't there a whole cyan range in Strife?).

Snarboo · Post by **Snarboo** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:17

I believe there is a nice blue range in Strife, and it also has the richest reddish-browns I've ever seen in a game palette. The temples, ruins and Commons really show off those colors very well.

Deathsong12 · Post by **Deathsong12** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:46

There are additional benefits to Strife as well. With the whole conversation system built into existing levels, I could see things like a mod that features no pickup weapons, but rather replaces the Accuracy and Stamina upgrades with them, to simulate getting issued new weapons by the Front. IMO, Strife's monster lineup is better balanced than Doom's, if a little more bland. (Which is why I'm adding SSD-style enhanced monsterts to HAE.) Heretic has those neat Tomes of Power, which double the weapon possibilites. (Idea! Shinto Showdown for Hetetic would be much better!) Heretic also has better overall weapon balance, with all of the weapons remaining useful, as opposed to Doom's weapons, which tend to concentrate weapon use on the superweapons and the SSG. The monster lineup is a little quirky, though, as there are no "mid-level" monsters. HeXen is too hard to mod for, alas, with the whole class thing borking it all up.

BioHazard · Post by **BioHazard** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:44

I always thought the problem with modding for Heretic/Strive was that nobody has those IWADs.

Deathsong12 · Post by **Deathsong12** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:49

Strife should not be a problem, IWAD-wise. People who don't have a Strife IWAD are either ignorant, stupid, or have moral qualms about abandonware. Heretic is slightly more tricky, but most people seem to have it, and it had a strong mapping community for a while.

jallamann · Post by **jallamann** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 15:59

I don't have the Strife IWAD. I don't have moral qualms about abandonware. I just don't really like the game. Am I ignorant or stupid because of that?
And I don't think most people have Heretic. I don't, and there are a lot more who are in my situation and don't want to change it. I played the Heretic demo a long time ago and it just didn't appeal to me. Why would anyone mod for Heretic these days anyway?

Post by **Enjay** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 19:11

Snarboo wrote:I believe there is a nice blue range in Strife, and it also has the richest reddish-browns I've ever seen in a game palette. The temples, ruins and Commons really show off those colors very well.

True, but GZdoom frees the modder from the game palette anyway. So you can use as many blues and reddish browns as you like anywhere.

Snarboo · Post by **Snarboo** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 19:27

I know that, I'm just talking about the original pallete. :) EDGE allows for 32-bit colors as well, but it needs to done through true color PNGs.

Deathsong12 · Post by **Deathsong12** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:15

jallamann wrote:I don't have the Strife IWAD. I don't have moral qualms about abandonware. I just don't really like the game. Am I ignorant or stupid because of that?
And I don't think most people have Heretic. I don't, and there are a lot more who are in my situation and don't want to change it. I played the Heretic demo a long time ago and it just didn't appeal to me. Why would anyone mod for Heretic these days anyway?

Fine. I forgot Doom fanboys in my assesment of who does and does not have these IWADS. Why would anyone mod for these games? Simple. Ease of use for resources from these games, and, perhaps, a little variety. I'm really sick of Doom, but I may be the only one.