[gzdoom2.1pre1972] Rendering issue

[Tormentor667]

Just noticed some odd issue in the 2.1 builds which works in the 1.8.10 builds, attached some screenshots for explanation, map can be tested in WolfenDoom BoA (C2M3, at the church in the middle of the map).

[Graf Zahl]

Ok, I'll look into it.

Aside from that, standing in that position gives me 22 fps and I got a real fast system! For most potential users this map will be a slideshow.

[Graf Zahl]

fixed. Just some boolean logic mess-up when deciding whether to draw a certain wall segment.

[Tormentor667]

Thanks for the fix. Concerning the fps, it's hard to keep track what makes the map that slow. Is it the amount of sectors visible at once? Is it the models? How can I track that and furthermore: How can I improve it?

[Graf Zahl]

What makes this map slow is the amount of terrain that's visible at once combined with the extremely high detail. The extensive use of dynamic lighting also plays a role here.

[Tormentor667]

So one thing for improving the performance would be adding lines that restrict the sight in various situations, is that right? (for example hiding the cathedral, hiding the farm in the north and things like that)

[Graf Zahl]

I'll give you some hints later - but overall, yes, something like dividing the map into sections where you cannot see one from the other.

[Graf Zahl]

The biggest issue is clearly the church. Whenever that gets into view the frame rate drops quite heavily.
And that is surrounded by some stuff you normally can't look over when you are at the church.

My suggestion would be to have two versions of it: A simple outer shape at its current place, and a fully detailed location elsewhere.
You'd have to use a silent line teleport to transition - and probably alter the passage so that you cannot see from one end to the other but then you cannot see the rest of the level from the church and the church that's seen from the rest of the level is not as resource hungry.

Although even then this map still gives Frozen Time a good run for its money for being the most resource demanding map out there...

[Tormentor667]

Thanks for the explanation Graf Zahl, I already expected it that the church is the main problem.

The interesting thing of that whole setup (and that's why it has been done as it is) is the possibility to see the whole map from the start (which gives it a "open world" feeling) and also see your track back from the clock tower. We have discussed this already in the development group and atm I am somewhat between "doing it the way I like it and as it is supposed to be" or "doing it the way most people can play it" ... it's certainly a big dilemma.

The teleport/passage idea is good, but has somehow already been done for the castle itself. Doing it for the church would actually break the whole experience, that I have created and described above, but if it is the only solution to move the church somewhere else, I most propably will have to do it.

Concerning the "most resource-demanding map out there", you already know that I always try to work in superlatives

[Graf Zahl]

Heh.

Concerning performance, don't forget that I got a fast machine (Core i7-3770, 3.4 Ghz - even the fastest CPUs out there today are only 30% faster.
About the church, if you only have the outside of it in the regular map, it won't cause much processing overhead, and you still can see it from the rest of the map - it's the complex 3D-floor structure of the inside, and the detailed graveyard that make it slow, not the building's silhouette.

I agree that it'd be a shame to lose the view, but I think this can be achieved without bringing performance down to a crawl. It'll take a bit of work, though.

Do you still remember the creepingly slow portal in TUTNT? With a bit of creative thinking that could be made fast enough so that it didn't become an issue. I think the same would be possible here, too, without actually sacrificing anything substantial.

[Rachael]

Tormentor it is only the greatest thing in the world to see you around again. I tried that spot as well and was getting a slightly lower FPS than Graf, I was at 16 instead of 22.

We have discussed this already in the development group and atm I am somewhat between "doing it the way I like it and as it is supposed to be" or "doing it the way most people can play it" ... it's certainly a big dilemma.

I don't know if you still value my opinion much, but doing it the way most people can play it will be better for you, I think. You are already pretty well known as one of the authors who stretches the limits of what people's systems can handle. It would honestly be a shame to see this masterpiece (and it may be a work in progress, but I am already seeing a masterpiece come out of this) be ignored just because the only people who can play it are people who have money to spend on newer systems.

You can always rest assured though, that no matter what you make today, in 10 years people should be able to play it with what will become the "dinosaur systems" of that time.

[Tormentor667]

Thanks for the technical support to both of you and also thanks for the kind words Eruanna I took the time to improve C2M3 and exclude the church from the main geometry so it doesn't have to be calculated all at once by the processor. I think the performance should be much better now but I can't definitely tell as my system doesn't make a difference between "before" and "after", so if you have some time, I'd be happy to know if it got better.

[Rachael]

It's a huge improvement. I was ranging between 46 to 60 FPS in that spot. Well done.

[Graf Zahl]

I haven't had time to test yet. Will do later this evening.

[Graf Zahl]

I don't think the new map is representative. What's up with the trees? In the old version the map was full of trees, in the new one they only pop up when the player is extremely close. Have you tried to optimize here? It looks completely broken. The distance at which they pop up is way, way too short. Default should be around 2000, not 256.

That said, when setting the vanishing distance to maximum, the frame rate never drops below 60, so it's perfectly playable.
One small glitch: When viewed from the right position the castle vanishes behind the sky. I think that should be improved a bit