Doom 2 Sprites Project Advise Inquiry

mac53 · Post by **mac53** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 18:56

I'm not sure where a request such as this could properly be posted, so I'll put it here...
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I am attempting an enhancement project for the Doom 2 iwad sprites. After extracting them to a folder and converting their formats to png, 24 bit true color and resolution increase to 200 pixels, I have constructed two separate sprites wads using Xwe. One wad I used the standard wad building techniques by loading the sprites in between the SS_ headers. Although I had gone through extensive graphic display enhancements, the sprites still doesnâ€™t display as well as I would like to see them. Plainly put, if I enhance these sprites any more, then I'll probably start seeing graphic distortion. On the other hand, my second sprite's wad, the same enhanced pngs were loaded in between to headers SS_, but as "raw data", and are being displayed as pngs and not sprites. There are no x-y offset settings and trying to match these settings with the ones from the Doom 2 iwad is useless!
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After say this... Here's what I would like to accomplish.

Using the standard enhanced sprites wad, the Doom 2 engine just breaks them back down to the 256-color palette!
There's nothing I can do about this, so this approach is out! On the other hand, if I can get the "raw data" sprites wad to display the sprites thus getting around the filtering of the engine, then this is what I'm interested in doing!!! I'm using the Zdoom/Hexen format for the construction configuration of my map and am recommending Gzdoom port engine for game play, because of its excellent OpenGL rendering capabilities. What processes do I have to do to get these "raw data" sprites into my map and function properly for game play?
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There reason I post this here, is to get the opinions of the team that built the best port engine I know of... If there's anything you guys can help me with here, I sure would appreciate it.

Thank you

Post by **solarsnowfall** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:54

I'd imagine figuring out and setting all the offsets for every single sprite would be a huge pain in the ass. When you say "resolution increast to 200 pixels", do you really mean an overall size increase of 200%? One idea could be to divide up the work among a group of people, so you're less likely to go mad and kill yourself setting the offsets all by yourself. You might ask about this over in the GZDoom forum.

I'm curious, could you post a sample of one such enhanced sprite?

mac53 · Post by **mac53** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:16

Yes... it was an overall pixel increase to 200 pixel /inch resolution and you are absolutley right... I did do all 1,381 of them by myself. It took about 8 days @ 3-4 hours per day to get them from the 256 color palette to 24 bit true @ 200, then getting loaded into Xwe to make the wad. I don't want to flood the forum, but here's a couple. I'm actually not finished, I'm going to begin increasing the resolution until I get better detail and color enhancement. I'm going to take a week or two off before getting started on round two.

Dutch Devil · Post by **Dutch Devil** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 15:20

I like them looks pretty good Mac.

Bashe · Post by **Bashe** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 18:40

This isn't just a "lol I increased teh size then used a sharpen fitler IM SO KOOL!!!!!!!" thing, is it? If it isn't then I'd say go for it. I'd like to see some hi-res sprites in Doom.

mac53 · Post by **mac53** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 18:52

No brother... this is no joke!!! I'm working my @$$ off to get these right.
As far as hi-res... I'm into that project right now... What you see here... is step uno! Got long way to go any many to do!

Post by **solarsnowfall** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 23:01

Darn, I was hoping you'd just post one of the sprites, looking at screenshots I can't really tell a difference because of GZDoom's filtering.

mac53 · Post by **mac53** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 20:41

I didn't want to post yet, beacuse I have so many processes that I have to go through, but right at the moment, this is where I am at with it.
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Boss: 24 bit [true color] png @ 3000 ppi, 2x on Alpha channel transparency. Like I said, I still have a way to go yet. Keep one thing in mind... I am preparing these sprites for maps that will be recommended for Zdoom or Gzdoom port engines. These may not work with the rest of those port engines out there... and frankly, I don't care if they do or not

Dead link deleted

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This one is the same sprite and with the same attributes as above but, @ 5000 ppi, and a white back-ground was used before the transparency was set.

Dead link deleted
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Now, here is an issue I'm running into... see the black image border lines?
The more I increase, like to 4x... those lines increase in thickness making the sprite look like sh_t! I'm trying to discover a way to reduce the thickness in all the definition lines within the sprite which will display a much better detail. This is where I am at in my project! If anyone has any ideas... shoot'em my way! They will be appreciated!

Post by **wildweasel** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 23:50

If you ask me, these sprites are always going to look like shit - no amount of enhancing and retooling is going to save them. The only way you will get acceptable quality sprites is if you were to build models of the characters and turn them into high-resolution sprites. Basing them on the originals is always going to make them look terrible.

mac53 · Post by **mac53** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 0:14

Believe it or not... that's my point "weasel"... if these enhanced sprites are ran through Gzdoom, then they'll accomodate the enhanced textures and flats used in todays maps. Furthermore, I agree with you about these sprites needing retooling. I heard mention about rescanning...???
Honestly, I can't see how that would do any good! Soooo! Basically what I'll do is to take the laid-back approach, not spend a ton of time on trying to make this happen, then see what turns up.

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For now, I'll make these sprites that'll run and look halfway decent using Gzdoom!!!! For now. One has to start somewhere, my friend!!! I'm new at this.

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Here's another one... same sprite 2x @ 10000

Dead image link deleted

It's just like "weasel" said, they look like shit!!! And I agree...

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Okay... a friend of mine just suggested that I go ahead with what it is that I'm doing @ 2x, not a 4x... load them into a wad file as "raw data", set the off-sets, then merge them into a bata-test wad and make that test wad available for comment. As like he said, "my original intention to start this project to begin with, was to make enhanced sprites, exclusively for Gzdoom" I think it's a good idea... That way, if people don't like it... hell, they don't have to use it, right?

Shinjanji · Post by **Shinjanji** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 18:33

Damn, and here I was expecting something akin to this: (Note: only the front leg is finished, lol)

mac53 · Post by **mac53** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 19:25

Shinjanji...

That looks better than mine...! What is your process?

Post by **wildweasel** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 19:28

My guess is, he's retouching the sprites manually using the pencil tool in Photoshop. Which is even more time consuming than filtering them.

mac53 · Post by **mac53** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 19:39

It may be, but damn that look's nice... If someone would take the time to
explain to me how that's done, then I'd restart the project over and use that process instead. I have;

Adobe PhotoShop Elements 5
Paint Shop Pro X
PhotoZoom Pro 2

Shinjanji · Post by **Shinjanji** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 22:39

wildweasel wrote:My guess is, he's retouching the sprites manually using the pencil tool in Photoshop. Which is even more time consuming than filtering them.

Pencil, Brush, and Smudge, to be exact. *nod*

EDIT:

mac53 wrote:It may be, but damn that look's nice... If someone would take the time to
explain to me how that's done, then I'd restart the project over and use that process instead. I have;

Adobe PhotoShop Elements 5
Paint Shop Pro X
PhotoZoom Pro 2

Well, all you really have to do is open your sprite, and increase its resolution to whatever scale you want (like 400%). Be sure that when you choose your resampling method, choose something that won't blend the pixels! (Photoshop's term is "Nearest Neighbor" for the resample type)

Aftrer that, I'd highly suggest taking the sprite and splitting it into various layers (I seperate mine by color). This makes it easier to work with less-precise tools like the Brush, Blur, and Smudge. Another alternative is to use selections to block out what you're working on (I did a combination of both layers and selections)

After that, begin retouching the sprite. Also use the pencil tool to add smoothness to the border of the sprite. Be sure to lock your transparency or use layer masks (I use masks with filled backgrounds, because I also work with the Blur and Smudge tools)

The last paragraph is the hard part, and will take the most time and effort (It will probably take less time if you are familiar with your program and tools (mouse or graphics tablet). At least some proficiency in the arts may help too, but it's not a massive descision-maker (Even the drawer of stick figures can make a masterpiece if he just keeps at it and goes slow and carefully, fixing his mistakes along the way.)

But yeah, it's tedious and aggrivating, but it looks nice.